Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I propose a minor amendment to the Order of Business, that No. 16 be taken before No. 1. I ask that we have a debate on the issues raised by the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. As the Leader will recall, I have already asked twice in the past two months for a debate on the constitutionality of mandatory sentencing. I have pointed out that the only mandatory sentence which is always applied by the court is the life sentence for murder. Ironically and perhaps cynically, it is also the only life sentence with which we interfere, each time by the involvement of the Minister and the political system, to change it to a term of years so that the life sentence does not mean for life.

There is an interesting case at present where a person is seeking to finish his life sentence abroad. If he stays here, he will probably finish his sentence in approximately ten or 12 years. If he goes abroad to the country of his choice, he must spend 25 years in prison. It gives some idea of how mandatory sentencing is not an easy issue, and there are questions such as bail and practical issues which we need to examine.

I spoke to a member of the Garda last night and asked how he felt about the seven days' detention. His answer was a simple one which would never have occurred to me. He stated that I would want to see where he and his colleagues work, that the idea of keeping people for seven days in the cells in their police stations was out of the question and that one could not do it. I am also informed that such authority has existed since the mid-1990s. I heard the same senior counsel as Senator Brian Hayes make that point.

I do not know whether these points are true. I certainly do not know whether I am listening to political or legal argument. Neither do I know whether there are constitutional and practical issues. I certainly would prefer to have a debate on these issues before we look at the legislation. I am uncomfortable with the idea of rushing the Bill. I do not see that it needs to be done in a month.

I am all in favour of discussing the important issues raised by the Tánaiste. The need to deal with gangland crime is crucial. If more authority and legal leverage needs to be given, then we should be prepared to give it, but we need to be certain about what we are doing as we go along.