Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Senator Mansergh should relax given that his party and the Labour Party could be in Government together. I did not intend to interrupt him but as the Labour Party Senators are not present, I thought I would help them out.

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, who outlined the money being spent on education. I am glad Senator Mansergh is still present because I wish to correct some of the misinformation he supplied on the Order of Business. Spokespersons on the Government side stated that the reason schools are being built without playgrounds in a country that is awash with money is that it is the policy of the education partners. This is not the case. The fact is that building classrooms and schools is crucially important, as also is class size. I sought such a debate earlier and perhaps we can go into that matter in greater detail on another day.

In fairness to Senator Mansergh, however, the point he was making on the Order of Business was that following consultation with the education partners, the Department decided that this year it would give the lowest priority to outside works in schools. Those proposals concerned new playgrounds, however, whereas I was referring to putting classrooms on top of play areas, thereby losing them. I am asking Senator Mansergh to take an interest in this. As of now, schools which will get approval to build for the next academic year have still not been informed. The list has been determined in the Department and people know it will happen, yet those concerned have not been told that such projects will go ahead. As soon as schools receive approval to proceed, they must then go through the planning process to get it up and running, which means there will be disruption next year. If they got the information now, however, that disruption could be avoided. There are no cost savings involved here. It is just a matter of having a better administrative approach. I am asking for that to be done.

The Minister of State referred to class sizes and the number of additional teachers. To balance the picture, however, it is important to recognise that one quarter of all primary school pupils are in classes comprising more than 30. Therefore, there is no point in the Minister of State telling me that the teacher-pupil ratio is 1:17. That may be a statistical or mathematical fact when one allows for the inclusion of small island schools, compared with large urban schools. However, we need to talk about class size, not the teacher-pupil ratio.

Given the 1:30-plus ratio, the amount of individual time a teacher can give to a student in the course of a day is less than ten minutes. That is the difficulty that has teachers in a state of uproar at the moment because they feel they cannot do the job they wish to do. More importantly, coming up to a general election, I have mentioned this matter because it was a pre-election promise but it has not been delivered upon. In fairness to the Minister, she said she has put the resources in another direction. I will not get into that debate but the fact is that what was promised in terms of class size has not been delivered. That is an important matter to examine.

Ba mhaith liom díríu isteach, agus cúpla focal a rá, ar pholasaithe Gaeilge an Rialtais agus na deacrachtaí ar leith atá ag baint leo. Tá a fhios ag an Teach go mbím ag argóint leis an Aire Gnóthaí Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta go minic mar gheall ar an méid atá idir lámha aige. Ba mhaith liom go mbeadh féachaint nua ar pholasaithe Gaeilge na tíre seo. Ba chóir dúinn struchtúr nua a fhorbairt. Ba cheart don Aire agus an Roinn machnamh níos straitéisí a dhéanamh ionas go ndéanfaí dul chun cinn sa mhéid sin. Ba cheart dúinn féachaint ar an nGaeilge i gcomhthéacs an oileáin ar fad. Bhí giota an-tábhachtach sa Good Friday Agreement ag baint leis an Ghaeilge i gcomhthéacs North-South. Tá sé tábhachtach go mbeadh na struchtúir ann chun dul chun cinn a dhéanamh. Ba chóir go ndéanfaí níos mó cúplaíocht idir scoileanna sa Tuaisceart agus sa Deisceart, mar shampla, ionas go mbeadh daltaí i mbunscoileanna agus meánscoileanna — agus sa triú leibhéal — in ann déileáil lena chéile. Má chuirimid oideachas ar fáil trí Ghaeilge sa Tuaisceart agus sa Deisceart, déanfaimid dul chun cinn. Ba cheart dúinn campaí samhraidh agus cúrsaí Gaeilge a eagrú mar shórt scoláireachtaí.

Ba mhaith liom caint mar gheall ar an rud is tábhachtaí a tharla ó thaobh dhul chun cinn na Gaeilge sa tír seo de tar éis bhunú an Stáit i 1922. Trí Bheárla ar fad a rinneadh gach cuid oibre sna scoileanna roimhe sin. Ní raibh Gaeilge ar a dtoil ag múinteoirí bunscoile na tíre. Tugadh deis dos na múinteóirí tréimhse a chaitheamh sna Gaeltachtaí, Gaeilge a fhoglaim, maireachtáil le muintir na nGaeltachta, tuiscint a fháil ar chultúr na nGaeltachta agus grá a chothú don teanga. Nuair a tháinig na muinteóirí thar n-ais as na Gaeltachtaí, bhí Gaeilge ar a dtoil acu agus bhí siad spreagtha chun an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn. Ba é sin an rud is tábhachtaí a rinneadh an uair sin. Ba cheart é sin — an tseirbhís a chur ar fáil do múinteóirí na tíre — a dhéanamh arís i gcomhthéacs oideachais. Ba chóir dúinn infheistíocht a dhéanamh sa mhéid sin. Tá sé i bhfad níos tábhachtaí ná an chuid is mó de na rudaí atá idir lámha ag an Aire Gnóthaí Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta faoi láthair.

Tá na rudaí atá ar siúl ag an Aire faoi láthair ag cur isteach go mór ar muintir tionsclaíochta agus gnó na tíre agus ag cur imní orthu. Tá mé ag caint mar gheall ar na moltaí atá á dhéanamh aige ó thaobh an Ghaeilge a bheith ar fáil ar an fón. Tá sé ag rá gur chóir go mbeadh gach rud ar fáil trí Ghaeilge when people ring any of the 500 or 600 semi-State companies, State companies and Departments, etc. Tá mé go mór i bhfabhar an mholta go mbeadh daoine in ann a gcuid oibre a dhéanamh le heagrais Stáit trí Ghaeilge. Cuirfidh sé isteach orm má chuirimid brú ar eagrais bheaga a gcuid gnó a chur ar fáil trí Ghaeilge. If somebody rings up the Rape Crisis Centre and expects to be able to do their business trí Ghaeilge, that is not an unreasonable expectation for somebody from the Gaeltacht. On the other hand, it is extraordinarily difficult for a small group like the Rape Crisis Centre to make that kind of service available. We need a balance in our approach to these things. There is too much zealotry ag baint le dul chun cinn pholasaithe Gaeilge na tíre seo. We need to be a little more careful in what we are doing.

Ó thaobh comhthéacs ilcultúrtha — the multicultural society — na tíre seo, ba mhaith liom go mbeadh seans againn cultúr agus teanga na tíre seo a chur ar fáil do na nua-Éireannaigh — the new Irish people — atá tagtha isteach ó thar lear. Ba chóir go mbeadh seans acu an teanga a fhoghlaim, go mbeadh spreagadh ann dóibh é a dhéanamh agus go mbeadh deontais ar fáil dóibh. It would be sensible to provide for orientation courses to help such people understand Irish history, background and culture.

Ba mhaith liom go mbeadh tuiscint againn ar cad ba chóir dúinn a dhéanamh leis an teanga i gcomhthéacs na hEorpa. Móran de na rudaí atá tarlaithe san Eoraip, is sórt political gimmickry atá i gceist to get recognition for the Irish language. I welcome what has been done in that regard. I will not replay my views on the Minister's decision to change the name of my home town from "Dingle — Daingean Uí Chúis" to "An Daingean", but I think that is the kind of nonsense that creates a split, a division and aggrevation. It achieves nothing — it does not get people speaking Irish — and turns people against the language. That is the kind of nonsense and political gimmickry we can do without ó thaobh dul chin cinn na teanga de.

I gcomhthéacs oideachais, ba chóir go mbeadh seans ag múinteóirí, go mórmhór, tréimhse a chaitheamh sna Gaeltachtaí chun an teanga a fhoghlaim, nó a athfhoghlaim, chun a bheith sáite i gcultúr, stair agus muintir na háite agus chun cultúr, teanga agus dearcadh muintir na nGaeltachtaí a thuiscint.

Tabharfaidh mé achoimre ar an deacracht a bhíonn ann i gcónaí ó thaobh pholasaithe Gaeilge de. Ó bunaíodh an Stáit, tá sé de nós agus de polasaí ag an Roinn Oideachais agus Éolaíochta, agus ag na Rialtais éagsúla, féachaint ar na Galltachtaí. They have always been far happier to get a few people in Dublin, or a few Northern Unionists, to speak a few words of Irish. They have always considered that to be a great success. We should be ag féachaint ar na Gaeltachtaí agus investing money in muintir na nGaeltachtaí so that we have the infrastruchtúr agus go mbeadh seans acu ó thaobh oideachais de, mar shampla. Bheadh sé ar fáil ag an mbunleibhéal, an dara leibhéal agus an tríú leibhéal agus adult education chomh maith trí Ghaeilge. Bheimis in ann an Ghaeilge a fhorbairt amach as na Gaeltachtaí mar gheall air sin, seachas an dearcadh faoi láthair sna polasaithe, ag díriú ar na Galltachtaí agus trying to develop it there. It will never work in that way.

Ó thaobh na h-ardteistiméireachta de, the leaving certificate, bheadh dhá scrúdú ann, two alternatives ó thaobh na Gaeilge sa leaving certificate. There would be one examination based on the language, so bheadh cumas teanga ann, spoken language, léamh agus scríobh an teanga, agus trí leibhéal ann, bun, gnáth agus ard. Bheadh seans ann do dhaoine scrúdú ardteistiméireachta a dhéanamh i labhairt agus scríobh na teanga. That would be one level and then another subject if people wanted to take it would be litríocht na Gaeilge, Irish literature, which would have labhairt agus scríobh na Gaeilge but would also have iniúchadh agus scrúdú ar litríocht agus filíocht na Gaeilge and all that goes with it, stair na litríochta agus filíochta agus mar sin. That would be a sensible way to go forward.

There should also be particular support, tacaíocht in oideachas ag an tríú leibhéal. Ansin bheimis praiticiúil. Tá áiteanna sa tír, cosúil leis an Díseart i nDaingean Uí Chúis nó Áras Uí Chadhain agus an t-ionad i mBaile Mhúirne which could immediately be available to allow people to participate i bhforbairt na Gaeilge agus gnéithe den teanga. These are a few of my ideas with regard to the approach to the Irish language which we need to consider.

The Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, has always struck me as being sensible on such issues. There has been much hypocrisy with regard to this issue. I love the Irish language and use it every day of my life. However, there is no Member of either House who is more critical than I of the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs for his political gimmickry, although I do not question his commitment. He has taken the wrong approach. We should be looking at the Gaeltachtaí and spreading out from there rather than looking at the Galltachtaí and trying to enforce Irish.

We need to bring people with us. There is genuine passive support for the Irish language but that will only last so long as we do not interfere with people. The idea of putting pressure on industry and large State organisations to carry out much of their business through Irish is a nice one but I would prefer to ask people to do it rather than force them. They will turn against Gaeilge if they are forced to consider the cost of installing an Irish answering service, putting somebody in place to deal with queries through Irish or installing a system to make certain documentation available as Gaeilge. We are at the tipping point. We should be clever in this regard.

The Minister did not refer in his speech to the green issue. The greens are going to save the world and the Government wants to get the green vote, yet the Minister does not refer to the issue. The greatest waste of money — I ask Senator Terry to add this to the fine list she outlined in her contribution — is the €217 million put aside in the budget for carbon credits. The most sickening aspect, apart from the waste of money, was that the Government cleverly presented it as a major, positive step for the environment that so much was being spent on carbon credits. It is a fine, for God's sake. We should be ashamed of ourselves. It has been put aside because we did not do what was necessary to meet our needs.