Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)

I thank Senator Cox for her remarks. I accept Senator Terry's concerns in respect of this matter. However, I am obliged to face the reality that there are 900,000 people who do not have occupational pensions. Of these, 500,000 are women who work. It behoves all of us to find some way to move these people to a position where they can look forward, when they retire, to income that will be additional to the State pension.

Leaving aside whatever will be decided following the process relating to the Green Paper, the only option available to the people to whom I refer under the current system is to enrol in pension schemes. To do this in a structured way and to ensure that people save money, the PRSAs are in place and offer possibilities. I accept that there are risks involved. However, it is better to be covered, have a pension, use the tax relief and work to ensure that one has as many protections in place as possible.

On guarantees, I spoke with Lord Turner about the system that applies in the UK. The new mandatory savings scheme there comes with a form of guarantee that people will get back a sum equivalent to what they invest plus a certain percentage.

I cannot accept Senator Terry's general thesis that pensions are bad value.