Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)

Is mian liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire Stáit, an Teachta Fahey, agus an Aire, an Teachta O'Donoghue, a bhí anseo roimhe. Déarfainn go bhfuilimid go léir ar aon aigne go bhfuil sé suimiúil, oiriúnach agus áisiúil go bhfuil díospóireacht mar seo ar siúl sa Seanad. Tá an t-ádh linn, dar ndóigh, go bhfuil scoláirí den scoth ag glacadh páirte sa díospóireacht seo agus go bhfuil faisnéis á cur ar fáil acu. Ní le haon duine amháin oidhreacht na hÉireann. Táimid i gcónaí ag foghlaim. Tá súil agam go bhfuil forbairt ag teacht orainn gach bliain agus go leanfaidh sé sin ar aghaidh i ngach céad amach anseo. Aontaím leis an Aire, an Teachta O'Donoghue, nuair a thugann sé cúlra na ceiste seo dúinn. Nil aon amhras faoi ná go bhfuil ré órga nua ó thaobh cultúr agus ealaíon i bhfeidhm sa tír seo i láthair na huaire. Ní gá ach féachaint ar an gníomhaíocht atá ag tarlú sa tír, go mórmhór i measc an phobail ach chomh maith i bpáirtnéireacht leis an Stáit. Tá sé sin mar gur chóir go mbeadh sé. Ceapaim go raibh an tAire ag iarraidh é sin a léiriú mar chúlra ar an díospóireacht.

I wish first to declare an interest. I am chairman of the Irish Family History Foundation and my former vice-chairman was the late Sir Robert Kidd, who was also the former chairman of the Northern Ireland Civil Service. My secretary was Paddy "Bogside" Doherty from Derry. The reason I mention these individuals is to underline the diversity of interest in the subject under discussion in the context of this Bill. I do not doubt that the results which come from such a confluence of aspirations, sentiment and philosophy must, of themselves, be rich. We should bear that in mind in the debate on the Bill lest in some way we may inject a sense of elitism where it should not exist.

In some ways, such a sense was created by the fact that almost all the emphasis in the debate so far has been on heraldry. The Bill presented by Senator Ryan also deals with other genealogical sources, which are quite comprehensive. Senator Feighan referred to such sources. I would have expected that this debate would have resulted in a much greater balance. In saying this, I do not intend to take away from the issue of chieftainship, heraldry or whatever. I had a friend who died some years ago and the wedding present he generally gave was a combined coat of arms for the two families which always sparked debate about how authentic were the coats of arms. We felt there was a poetic licence attached to these gifts and that the mottos and coats of arms were intended in some way to boost the morale of the recipients. One wonders if an element of that attitude does not attach to this debate. The credibility of continuity has been undermined by some serious recent major cases.

The initial exchange between Senators Ryan and Norris in this debate was to an extent about semantics. I do not mean that in a derogatory sense but it accentuates my point that most people outside this House will not watch this debate on "Oireachtas Report" tonight, even if it is broadcast on the programme, which in a way is sad. There is an element of elitism in this debate which should not be the case. When we get down to the semantics we may be promoting that concept about a part of our heritage.

I watched Senator Ryan's body language while the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue, spoke and hope that I interpreted him correctly. He sat up very straight when the Minister rightly praised him. Senator Ryan deserves the credit not just of this House but of the country for the amount of effort he has put into this Bill. It is not a Mickey Mouse Bill. It is well-researched and underpinned by a great degree of sincerity and I compliment the Senator on that. The Minister took the same view and did not want to see a Bill of this importance and potential end in a vote. That would only add to the lack of public interest in this subject.

I would prefer to look upon this debate as another stepping stone towards the acceptance of our heritage and to see the Bill sent to the National Library. That would not be the end of it. As Senator Ryan said even if the Bill is voted down today it will almost certainly return because there will be always people outside here who will be interested in the subject.

The other genealogical sources have been neglected. There are 40 million people of Irish extraction in North America, most of whom have, or are developing, an interest in their roots, partly because of the position Ireland holds in the world today, not just an economic one, although that is important, but in the areas of culture, sport, literature and so on. People of the diaspora are proud of their roots and want to trace them. That area is more relevant than the heraldic element of the Bill.

Having declared an interest in this matter I feel entitled to expand on the Irish Family History Foundation. There are 33 centres in Ireland, North and South. Both traditions are fully integrated into the project. All the Catholic Church records have been made available to the foundation's centres, only in this context. Most of the Church of Ireland records have been also made available and a large section of the civil records have been input on a computer. Almost 80% of the records have been input and computerised and we have almost concluded this work. In a matter of months all these records will be accessible on the Internet. A new pay per view system is being devised between North and South and we are signing the agreement whereby all those records will be available for everybody in the world to access.

There will not be just a centralised computer database. The system will bring one back to the local centre, which will encourage cultural tourism. Senator Ryan may not have been conscious of the extent of that area of genealogical research and service. We should be careful not to ascribe a quaint historical concept to this by bringing the State in to legislate for it because that is a minefield. The bodies involved in this area should be open and accountable, and through their scholarship and journals should try to bring more people into consideration. I salute Senator Ryan's work and appeal to the Minister not to let this Bill drift in a vote but to keep it alive because it has the basis for much greater development.