Don Lydon (Fianna Fail)

I will be brief in my contribution. This is one of those short Bills introduced from time to time that slips through, as it were. It has been said it is a short, technical and important Bill and that we should pass it. While this is a short Bill, it is a deadly one in many ways.

The Minister of State said, "No doubt some of you are wondering why it is necessary for the Bill to give Ministers the power to create indictable offences under the 1972 Act". I have the same reservations about the Bill as those expressed by Senator Dardis and others. I am considering it from the perspective of a fisherman from the place from where I come, Killybegs. If a fisherman sails his boat from one box to the other and does not record that journey, this becomes an indictable offence and huge penalties can be imposed willy-nilly by a Minister giving effect to EU law in such an instance without any reference back to the House. Is that true or false? That is not good law and it is a bad way of doing business.

The Minister of State said that if we have to return to the House every time to introduce a measure, we would slow down the implementation of European Community law, which would leave us potentially in breach of our treaty obligations. What of it if such a process would slow down the implementation of European Community law? We are in charge of our own affairs. The principle of subsidiarity must apply here. This Bill seems to provide that a Minister can bring forth an indictable offence incurring a maximum fine of €500,000 or three years imprisonment. That is a great deal of money and constitutes a major fine, particularly where it is not referenced to a specific crime. That amount is the maximum fine if the Minister wishes to create an indictable offence. I have grave reservations about such offences when they are not connected to a particular act. If the Minister of State were to say that if a person does A, B, C, or D, that is an indictable offence punishable by a fine of €500,000, then we would know what we are talking about. However, it appears he is saying a fine of €500,000 will apply and there will be an indictable offence if the Minister decides with reference to A or B. If the Minister of State could explain the position to me, I would like hear it because I am uncomfortable with the provision as it stands.

I am sure the Bill is necessary. I have read it a number of times. It is a short Bill and not that technical or difficult to understand, but the implications of it are wide-ranging. I do not doubt the bona fides of the Minister of State in this matter. I know what he intends and I am sure the Bill might be necessary. At the moment, Ministers can only create summary offences and regulations pursuant to the 1972 Act, but if the Bill is enacted, it will provide for indictable offences. The penalties for those offences are very severe. I am not sure about the way the Bill deals with them. Why cap the fine at €500,000? Why not make it €1 million or €300,000? Where does the figure come from? Surely the punishment must fit the crime and if we do not know what the crime is, how can the punishment fit it?

I could talk about the Bill and say different things about it, but all has been said in the Minister of State's very fine speech and opening remarks. Other Senators have referred to aspects of the Bill, which is very short. I do not want to go on talking about it, but I would like the Minister of State to address the questions I have raised. Too often, legislation slips through the Oireachtas on the nod and we are sorry afterwards. I am sure the Minister of State has answers to these questions, but if he has not, I hope he can come back another day and explain them.