Brendan Ryan (Labour)

I know that. It was a different world.

The fundamental problem is that the Department of Finance which runs the Department of Health and Children has set its face against a universalist system of provision for older people. It is determined to squeeze blood out of dying turnips. The fundamental issue in this regard is the Department's desire to make people pay, regardless of the human suffering involved. It is clear that this scheme is putting pressure on older people to dispose of their assets. The imputation of income to an older person from his or her private residence is astonishing. It would be more honest to say we want to put a charge on the estate — to tell potential inheritors that there is a charge on their estate, or that there is a mortgage on their house. If we tell old people and their families that they cannot get a subvention because we are imputing to them an income of 5% of the capital value of their houses, we will be suggesting to them that they should sell or rent out their houses. As Senator White said, there are not nearly as many in nursing homes as people pretend there are and they do not tend to stay in such homes for nearly as long as people pretend they do. The number in long-term care is not larger partly because people cannot secure long-term care. Many of those who get places in private nursing homes cannot afford to take them up.

I do not know where the idea that there is some rational or humane reason for all of this has come from. It is about as relevant to mention that somebody from my party thought it up 16 years ago as it is to quote what de Valera did in 1937. It is history. Many people in Government have not yet got a handle on the fact that Ireland is now a rich country. They seem to think it simply means that they and their friends, supporters and funders can enjoy a lifestyle unimaginable ten years ago. However, it also means that this country has resources which were unimaginable ten years ago.

We should celebrate the fact that the country has got its economic act together as a result of a succession of good political decisions by a succession of Governments, which means that we can now deal with the changes in society. That is what this whole thing is about. The manner in which we organise the funding of long-term care for older people is a reflection of the values of our society. The legislation before the House reminds us that our values at a time when we are prosperous are the same as they were when we were poor. Essentially, it seems that in the matter of long-term institutional care we cannot afford any more now when we are prosperous than we could some years ago when we were poor.

The home packages are most welcome. However, I would like to refer to the case of an elderly person with whom the Minister of State and I are acquainted. I am sure the Minister of State can guess whom I am talking about. The person in question was in an institution which she loves when the Minister, Deputy Harney, announced the extension of supports to keep people in their own homes. She thought that the Minister's announcement meant she would be forced to go back home. That is how vulnerable old people are. The lady in question is bright — she reads The Irish Times every day. Elderly people are vulnerable because they are unsure and uncertain. While the Minister's statement was well intended, it had the effect mentioned. If the Government starts telling elderly people that they have to meet some complicated formula, their vulnerability will be reinforced. One would almost need to be an accountant to understand the formula in question. I defy the Minister of State to tell me that he has ever explained it to a constituent at a clinic. It is utterly incomprehensible to an ordinary person. Even though I am a very numerate individual because of my profession, I still believe——