Feargal Quinn (Independent)

Ba mhaith liom comhghairdeas a dhéanamh leis an Aire Stáit — go n-éirí an bóthar léi. I do not know what road the Minister of State intends to take but she is far too young, enthusiastic and full of energy to take it easy. Perhaps she will indicate later what she intends to do. We appreciate the work she has done in respect of adult education and on the other work she has carried out in recent years.

Approximately two to four years ago, I approached a 50 year old employee with the intention of promoting him. The job to which he was to be promoted was not particularly difficult but he turned down the move, the additional money and the enhanced reputation. I could not figure out why he did so until I was informed that he could not read or write. The individual in question had been with my company for 20 years but I never became aware of that fact because he kept it hidden. At that stage, I took an interest in adult education and adult literacy and in the work that is carried out, usually behind the scenes. I was surprised to discover that some of the women who attend adult education courses did so in order that they could help their children with their homework. These individuals had never admitted to their children that they could not read or write. That was a horrifying discovery to make.

There is a danger that members, particularly those who are elected by university graduates, might view adult education as equivalent to third level education in universities or colleges. It is, of course, much more than that. Due to the fact that the education sector is so complex and expensive, the unfortunate reality is that the elements within it are constantly at war with each other to obtain the largest possible slice of the cake for themselves. Inevitably, it is the elements which shout the loudest that receive the most. That is no different from the position which obtains in other sectors. However, a further side effect is that the various elements in education tend to become self-regarding "silos" which think only of themselves and not others.

Anyone who is familiar with further education will immediately recognise that it is this element which falls behind. It becomes the Cinderella or the lost cousin who is not considered. Part of the reason for this is a mindset that disregards adult education altogether and perceives it merely as a hobby. As a result of the fact that some of the courses people undertake are regarded as hobbies, the overall message is sometimes lost.

We must arrive at a situation where people do not believe they are being unjustly or wrongly treated because they did not attend university. This is a false picture and one which does the nation no good at all. As the Minister of State indicated, further education makes a highly valuable contribution in two ways. First, it provides people with skills they could not acquire at school or university — these are valuable skills that the country needs — and, second, it provides a small number of individuals with a bridge between secondary school and fully-fledged third level education. In that context, adult education can represent an alternative route into third level for people who, for whatever reason, were not ready or able to move directly to that level after school.

I became familiar with the value of further education as a bridge to third level when, approximately ten years ago, the then Minister for Education asked me to become chairman of the leaving certificate applied committee of the NCCA. My eyes were opened because I did not previously know a great deal about education. For example, I was not aware of the number of people who fell behind in their education between the ages of seven and 12 and who ended up at the back of the class. Such individuals may have been very talented, highly skilled and possessed great intelligence. However, their intelligence was not adequately measured by the traditional leaving certificate. I was stunned by the success that people could achieve as a result of the leaving certificate applied. The original intention behind it was to have people sit some sort of leaving certificate examination. However, as we began to deal with the issues, we discovered a great reluctance on the part of parents to close off the third level route permanently in respect of their children. We also discovered that there was a great thirst for an additional qualification beyond the level of the leaving certificate. There was a desire among many students who embarked upon the leaving certificate applied that it would not represent the end of their education. Hence the attraction of further education, which some of them saw as a stepping stone towards third level.

My experience taught me two things. First, that we should allow, in our educational planning, for different ways of reaching the same destination. Such ways should suit the particular aptitudes and talents of individuals. The second thing I learned was that rather than considering the various elements of education as self-contained boxes, we should regard them as bridges and pathways on a road to lifelong learning. That is where adult education comes into the picture.

When I left school, education was regarded as something one did when one was young and that one finished when one left school. Those of us who were lucky enough to attend university 40 years ago were also of the opinion that our education had finished when we completed our courses. The world has come a long way in the interim and it continues to change. I was chairman of An Post in 1984, at which point plans for the following three years were being made. We had never heard of a new item of equipment called the fax machine and Members can imagine the threat it represented. Neither it nor e-mail had previously existed. Those of us who believe that when we complete our education we will not continue to learn should think again.

Previous speakers referred to lifelong learning, which is, of course, important. However, I am concerned at how little we have adapted to the concept of lifelong learning. Everybody claims to prescribe to the cliché of lifelong learning but nothing much has been done to bring into effect the necessary changes. The Minister of State is taking action at present and I hope her commitment in this regard continues.

The structure of the education system is not all that different from the structure which obtained 40 years ago when I left university. Our universities are still largely geared towards the outdated idea that knowledge is something young people acquire in an up-front manner in a once-and-for-all encounter. If we persist with this approach, there is no way we can become leaders in a knowledge society. The Lisbon Agenda refers to the future of Europe depending on a knowledge society and we must find a way to move forward in this regard. It follows that a knowledge society will organise education as a lifetime process and attach at least as high a priority to the learning people do as adults as that attached to the learning they undergo in their early years.

Is this where our priorities lie? Sadly, I do not believe so. Until now, it appears we thought we could succeed in a knowledge society by pouring resources into the same areas into which we have always invested. I do not oppose any of that investment, and I have long been prominent in advocating it. However, I wish to counsel against that as the entirety of the job that needs to be done. Until we have an education system that is genuinely geared towards lifelong learning, we will not have the structure necessary to succeed in the world that is opening up before us.

I congratulate the Minister of State on her contribution and on her commitment in respect of this matter. I wish her well in the future.