Joanna Tuffy (Labour)

I too wish the Minister of State well in her future endeavours and commend her work in this and the youth work area. I recently received a statement from the National Youth Council of Ireland which was happy with the increases provided for youth work in the recent Estimates.

Our education system should be based on the concept of lifelong learning, which includes adult and further education. The Minister of State said that participants in post-leaving certificate courses are less likely to be unemployed than most other categories of school leavers. I agree with that point. These courses and the further education system serve 30,000, most of whom are in courses matching the skills needs of the economy.

Support staff, however, are urgently needed, including the technicians for science and engineering laboratories and computer rooms, which are available for further education in other EU countries. Further education programmes provide the most suitable means for adults who wish to avail of second chance education to achieve qualifications and possibly go on to degree and postgraduate level. However, such programmes do not have the necessary staff.

The increased funding for this area is not sufficient. This Government should have done more with the resources available and should now do more to ensure the economy remains competitive. The Minister of State has mentioned some of the many reports on this issue which have not been implemented. The Government repeats that we need a competitive economy and to provide for the upskilling of our workforce to create a knowledge-based economy and so on, but it does not match that talk with the necessary actions and investment.

Almost six years after publication of a report commissioned by the then Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, from the task force on lifelong learning, the Government has refused to implement many of its recommendations, including that on free part-time fees. The Labour Party supports that recommendation, for which AONTAS and other groups and reports have called. Unlike its more advanced competitors, Ireland has no system for paid educational leave.

Senator Norris said at the beginning of his contribution that he had the misapprehension that this was a debate about third level education. That is the subject because third level education is a central part of adult and further education. He referred to Trinity College, where I studied. While it has achieved some good with initiatives such as the Trinity access programme, TAP, it should not clap itself on the back for its performance in adult and further education. It is not open to everybody. It is very much an elitist institution, as are many of our other educational institutions, especially universities. That is a fact. It does not have a flexible model of education that would encourage more mature students and second chance learners.

I challenge what Senator Norris stated about the building on North Great George's Street which he did not consider appropriate for a Youthreach programme. Perhaps the Youthreach programme in his area should be moved to Trinity College. Perhaps then the college would have the opportunity to progress into other levels of education.

Trinity College is not unique in this regard. This is a common factor in universities. They need to do much more to be innovative in their approach to adult education and lifelong learning. They still see adult education as being about hobby courses and other courses that do not merit educational qualifications. They perceive adult education to be about short courses that do not progress one very much in the subject in question. These colleges do not provide opportunities in any real sense for workers to advance their skills. I do not care where Trinity College comes in a list compiled by somebody somewhere in the world. I do not give a damn about that. I accept prestige is a matter of concern for universities and other people but what really matters is what universities and third level institutions do for Ireland and Irish people, how they provide for a better economy and how they serve students, second chance learners etc. That point must be made.

The Government should change the funding mechanisms for universities and institutes of technology to encourage the part-time attendance of adults in courses relevant to the job market, and funding should be geared towards allowing educational institutions to provide a flexible model of education.

One should be able to study part-time during the day at a university or institute of technology. One should not have to worry about exorbitant fees. One should also be able to move flexibly between part-time courses and full-time courses. If one has to drop out of a full-time third level course, one should be able to continue that course part-time so that one can complete one's studies. Many people cannot study full-time during the day and the education system should provide for them. This would especially benefit second chance learners. Part-time education students are discriminated against. They should have the same fees regime as full-time students. If a more flexible model of education were introduced, it would absorb some of the costs involved. The cost is not that high and it would be well worth it in terms of investment in the education of the workforce etc.

The Minister of State referred to community education. This sector is very strong in my area. In Clondalkin, for example, there are between 13 and 15 women's groups involved in women's development education. The Minister of State referred to the provision of €110,000 to consolidate women's participation in community education. I welcome this acknowledgment of the importance of this aspect of education but that sum is just a drop in the ocean in terms of what is required. These groups should not have to apply for €1,000 or whatever amount to keep them going for a year. They should be able to get enough funding to continue providing their service.

These groups are successful and have done great work in providing women, especially those in disadvantaged areas, with a chance to access second and third level education. The Minister of State acknowledged this. They have also combined education with community development. Such schemes must be provided with more resources as the model is successful. It is important to invest in success where it is apparent.

Women involved in a local development group in my area received funding that allowed them to gain qualifications up to a certain level in community development and women's studies but once they reached degree and postgraduate level, which some of them chose to do, they had to pay for the courses themselves. The fees in question were up to €5,000 per year and these people are not very well off. This area must be examined. If funding were provided to pay fees for part-time students at third level, it would be one way of helping those groups.

I wish the Minister of State well but the Government has to do more if we are to meet our targets. The Department of Education and Science has produced many reports over the years yet the Government has not implemented their recommendations. If the Government really cares about adult and further education, it should do so.