David Norris (Independent)

That is exactly what I mean. Women are able to think in a lateral way. Would it not be for the benefit of everybody if some accommodation could be found where parents could bring their children with them when attending further education courses? The children could be even with their parents in the classroom. People would not mind that much if a child let out an occasional belch or squawk. The reliance on unpaid child care, rather than looking for more imaginative solutions, puts us in danger of creating another culturally and emotionally deprived generation. In the old days it was the granny and the extended family that provided child care. I regret that such arrangements are no longer made.

I am all in favour of adult learners. When I used to teach in the College of the Holy and Undivided Trinity of Queen Elizabeth near Dublin, it was a joy to me to have adult learners in a class. They brought a richness of experience with them and an absolute commitment to their coursework. Some of the younger students were doing a course because their parents had pushed them into it, when what they really wanted to do was hairdressing. As this was not the right thing to do, they were stuck into Trinity College. Adult learners, on the other hand, had actually chosen to come to college, picked their subjects carefully and brought a great richness to courses.

As the Minister of State is aware, in the latest international university survey Trinity College is the only Irish university in the first 100 institutions worldwide. The college plans to get into the first 50 and I believe it can. However, it will need a massive investment programme. Yesterday I lunched at the Provost's House where the plan was explained and costed. It is a good one. If we can get the college into the first 50 universities in the world, it would be great for the country, helping to bring up all our educational institutions. The ones in the first 50 usually have a staff-student ratio of 10:1; the ratio in Trinity College is 18:1. It has launched an investment programme to reduce it.

The college is also becoming more open. I adored the bursting of the railings some 30 years ago when a gate was opened on to Nassau Street. The college intends to do so again at Pearse Street. There will be a traverse path from Pearse Street to Nassau Street which will open up the college. Student numbers will be stabilised at 11,500. The figure was 3,000 when I was a college student. The college has imaginatively used the space available to it, as exemplified by the CRANN Building.

While it concentrates on developing fourth level education, the college has not neglected the people at the more delicate end of the educational spectrum. Up to 15% of places are allocated to non-traditional learners who include those who come within the parameters of this debate. In addition, there is the excellent programme for disabled people, pioneered in Trinity College, as well as the Trinity Access programmes which gives access to a college education to people from social groups and parts of Dublin city who did not dream of having a Trinity College degree. I was part of the team which presented certificates last year and it was such a thrill to meet such individuals because of their enormous sense of achievement and participation.

I salute the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, for the work she has done. I have not done it in quite as elaborate a way as Senator Fitzgerald but it is nonetheless heartfelt. The Minister of State only knows too well that although she may relinquish her ministerial post, some of the privileges survive such as car-parking, visiting the restaurant and the Visitors Gallery.