Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)

Our strategy is to introduce sniffer dogs to the system and new visiting arrangements. I do not agree with the proposition it is more humane to have physical contact in a drug-ridden prison than to have a drug-free prison with substantial restrictions on physical contact with prisoners. If the price of physical contact is rampant drug infestation in a prison it is no mercy on any prisoner including drug-free prisoners who are surrounded by prisoners who are a danger to them.

This Bill provides for mandatory testing. It will be uncomfortable for prison governors to be in a position to admit that a certain proportion of prisoners show up positive for barbiturates, heroin or cannabis. We must deal with these issues. The strategy being rolled out is the correct way to progress. I have always welcomed the tough words used by Mr. Justice Dermot Kinlen. Contrary to what has been suggested here, I get on very well with him personally and in every other away. We have a warm and long-lasting friendship which, despite the fact that we take lumps out of each other in public in respect of our various interests, has endured and continues to do so. I thank him for his forthrightness. I do not agree with everything he says and when I do not agree, I say so. Similarly, he does not agree with everything I say, in which case he says so also. That does not mean, however, that we are at loggerheads or personally ill-disposed to each other. I assure the House that is far from being the case.

If it can be done economically, it is more desirable for prison escort services to be provided by public servants. A privatised system is one of last resort. In effect, I have done a deal with the prison officers whereby if they provide the prison escort service in a form which is economically sustainable, Part 2 of this Bill will never come into operation. As far as I am concerned, that is a deal which I do not intend to renege on.

The dispute about overtime was one in which a minority of prison officers predominated over the interests of the great majority. The result was that huge sums of money were being cannibalised in overtime, which should have been spent on improving the prison service, including rehabilitative and psychotherapy programmes. I am confident, however, that the new system is now working. The big winners are the prison officers because instead of getting a decent wage by having to spend 100 hours a week in a prison, which is not the most uplifting way to spend one's working life, they now know that if they do their part of the bargain, the emphasis is on minimising the amount of time they must spend at work rather than maximising it. That is a big step forwards, so they have been the winners in that regard.