Joanna Tuffy (Labour)

The inappropriate detention of children and young people is something on which I wish to focus. The Government is making much of its plans to have a referendum on the rights of children. However, it is a disgrace that children and young people are still inappropriately detained in prisons and institutions such as St. Patrick's. We must complete, as a matter of urgency, the building of appropriate detention centres for young people.

The Government must fully implement and resource the Children Act. Other Members have mentioned the alternatives to detention. The Minister himself has said that detention should be a matter of last resort and I support that. The Government should invest in long-term alternatives to detention. Senator Walsh mentioned restorative justice and juvenile justice schemes. If we put resources in place, it will save us money in the long term. The Comptroller and Auditor General's report compares the use of the probation and welfare service with detention. It shows that the former is much more cost effective. It may even be more effective overall, but that needs further analysis. The Minister will shortly implement legislation on anti-social behaviour orders, ASBOs. When young people are served with ASBOs, it is important that the supports are in place to allow them comply with their undertakings and conditions.

The Inspector of Prisons and Places of Detention, Mr. Justice Dermot Kinlen, has been critical of St. Patrick's Institution, as has Father Peter McVerry. They both mentioned the need for hope around young people. If there is hope for anyone to be rehabilitated, there must be hope for young people. We must provide the resources and facilities for this to happen. In his speech, the Minister spoke of his desire to do more in providing for the rehabilitation, education and training for prisoners. He cannot simply talk the talk; he must also walk the walk. When interviewed in May, Mr. Justice Kinlen spoke about the 18 training and educational programmes for young offenders in St. Patrick's that had closed. These included workshops in photography, carpentry and domestic sciences. The judge spoke about a course where young people were taught to drive and repair cars from which some had gained useful employment. The trend in recent years has been to cut back education and training.

I visited Mountjoy Prison with the Minister a few years ago and we were shown the work carried out in workshops. Some prisoners had gone for the President's Award and had carried out different projects. We spoke to the people involved in education and training and even at that time things were at a marginal level and were being further cut back. The Minister must do much more.

I am not one of those who believes we should not put people in prison. I am for putting people in prison when appropriate. However, I see no point putting people in prison, particularly as so many are in prison for a relatively short period of time, if we do nothing to change their behaviour. We should provide them with education and training so that when they are released, they can work and make a living and a life for themselves without having to resort to crime.

As I said previously, it is very important something is done for prisoners when they are released from prison so they are rehabilitated back into society. Mr. Justice Kinlan was involved in a project in that regard but more needs to be done to ensure housing for them and that if they need drugs treatment, those facilities are there. I have dealt with people whose children have been in prison. They do not want their children back living with them when they are released from prison because they fear it will affect their tenancy if they are council tenants. Often when prisoners are released, they are basically homeless and it is not long before they again become involved with the wrong crowd, drugs and crime.

The Minister said he wants to ensure our prisons are humane. That is not the case at present. Slopping out and the conditions in which prisoners live are shocking. We must treat prisoners with dignity so they will treat other people with dignity too. As a society, we must show that we have certain standards in terms of human rights and the way we treat people. The Minister has been talking about ending the practice of slopping out for a few years. Why is it taking so long to do something about this issue?

With regard to the planning issue, a couple of years ago I wrote to the director of prisons on behalf of some residents living in the vicinity of Cloverhill and Wheatfield Prisons to see if the Prison Service would liaise with the local community on certain issues in regard to the prisons. However, I did not receive a reply to my letter. The residents had the same problem and the reason I wrote to the director of prisons in the first place was to try to set up that dialogue between the community, the prison service and those prisons.

In the context of the new planning regime introduced in this legislation, if prisons are to be built, it is important there is communication between the prisons and local communities so that if problems arise or there are any concerns, the local community can speak to the appropriate person in the Prison Service about them. That type of liaison could lead to positive outcomes in regard to projects which could be undertaken by the community and the Prison Service in terms of what happens prisoners when they leave the system. It might also lead to a more positive attitude among the local community to what is happening in the prison and perhaps to its involvement on prison visiting committees.

I, too, have concerns about privatisation. The Minister is right in that there is a need to take on the vested interests in the public service and that includes the Prison Service. However, there is much to be said for investing in public facilities and infrastructure. There are so many areas where the Government is investing in private schemes to deal with various public services. That money is going into a black hole because one has no assets or anything built up for the long-term despite the money pumped into privatisation schemes. I urge caution in that regard.

Much crime relates to drugs and people with drugs problems so it is important we provide drugs treatment to prisoners. There was a very harrowing story during the summer where a young woman basically refused to go back to prison. The judge agreed with her because she was not getting the necessary treatment there. It is all about trying to change people's behaviour and ensuring we get value for money in terms of what we invest in prisons. We must provide the education, training and drugs treatment.