Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)

I do not consider such arrangements to be acceptable. One could argue that care is being given to the children but the setting is not appropriate. The issue was brought to my attention during the summer recess, and I did not raise it in the House before today. My investigations have confirmed the truth of the matter, although I could not make an estimate of the numbers involved. I am aware that difficulties have arisen in terms of developing the necessary resources for providing children with appropriate accommodation but the situation I have outlined falls far short of acceptable standards. I urge the Minister of State to investigate the matter.

I have asked the Leader for a debate on the issues raised by the baby Ann case. I welcome the fact that we are beginning to debate the position of children within the community. It was not long ago that the idea of giving children independent rights was inconceivable. We have moved a long way in that regard. The campaigns by Barnardos, the Children's Rights Alliance and other organisations to put this issue on the agenda is bearing fruit from their point of view. That the Taoiseach has responded to calls for a referendum on including children's rights in the Constitution is an indication of the elevated level it has reached politically and in terms of it becoming a reality following a referendum.

There are many issues to be considered and I welcome the Government's inclusive approach. I am aware the non-governmental organisations have been asked, under the umbrella of the Children's Rights Alliance, to convene with the Minister of State to discuss possible wordings, the implications of those and so on. I hope we will have a third discussion at Oireachtas level. I have called for a debate in this House well in advance of the publication of a wording to allow us to tease out the issue, which is not simple. I am not a constitutional lawyer but I know from reading the summary of the judgments in the so-called baby Ann case that there are complex issues to be considered and that a balance of rights must be achieved. We have had difficulty in achieving a balance of rights in the past involving children who were unborn. I hope we will be able to agree on a position which not only achieves what we want but does not cause us further problems.

As a society and a community we have embraced the notion of children having rights independently. Senator Feeney asked a question, to which I also want to hear the answer, about separate representation for a child in a Supreme Court case such as the one that was heard this week. My assumption is that child could not have been represented because it was not possible legally, but cases other than Supreme Court cases are heard daily in which children need representation. I am aware they get representation in many cases, but I ask the Minister to clarify that aspect.

I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House for what is a valuable debate. I thank the Leader also for providing time for the debate.