John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)

If Senator Minihan knew anything about rural Ireland he would know that agriculture and rural planning are very much interconnected. Clearly he does not.

I second the amendment in the name of my colleague, Senator Bannon and all the Fine Gael Senators. Senator Bannon is correct. It is ironic that we are discussing housing. We have had a number of debates on housing in recent months. Given the Progressive Democrats motion, one would not think that party had been in Government for nine-and-a-half years with its Fianna Fáil partners. It has singularly failed in all the objectives Senator Brennan outlined in his opening remarks. He spoke of the need for a good supply of affordable housing.

Last week we had a debate on housing. It is clear that houses are still being constructed with hollow blocks in this city and there is certainly not a good supply of housing. We all know about the problems of affordability, as outlined by Senator Bannon. Senator Brennan mentioned the quality of life issues. The Government has condemned people to living miles from their places of work and to commuting morning and evening. If they have children they see them only for a couple of hours per day. I would like those people to hear the Progressive Democrats' motion and Senator Brennan refer to quality of life issues.

If one has to work in Dublin and every day drive from the furthest point of the Minister's constituency in, say, Rathvilly, County Carlow, one has little by way of quality of life. Some people spend two or three hours in a car every morning and evening getting to and from work. The Government's motion proposes little to help those who find themselves in that position.

I agree with Senator Brennan who said there is a need to put the contents of pre-planning meetings on the planning file. That is the correct approach. The standard of engagement that takes place with planners and those who make applications at pre-planning meetings varies widely across the country. Something needs to be done in this area. Often people get no indication one way or another from pre-planning meetings and, as Senator Brennan pointed out, these are not taken into account when the planning file is judged at a later date.

One particular bugbear I have is the issue of vernacular planning in rural areas. We have a particular problem in my neck of the woods in Carlow and Kilkenny where planners say they want small windows in houses. The small windows in rural houses came from the time when the British authorities were in control and there was a tax on windows. It is not acceptable in this day and age to implement the social policy of the British authorities as implemented here a couple of hundred years ago merely because it is covered by the term "vernacular planning". That is unsustainable into the future particularly in the case of a house facing south where a greater use of glass at the front would attract and maintain heat, given the problems of energy costs and sources. There is a need for a commonsense approach to planning in local authorities areas.

I have eight planning files of people in Carlow and Kilkenny who have been refused planning permissions on their own lands. In some cases, this was done for quite good planning reasons but in many others the reasons were flimsy and a lack of commonsense was applied by planners. When files were refused, people had to make a couple of minor adjustments before reapplying because the further information option was not used in the planning system.

We must ensure a continuous flow of people into rural areas. In the past couple of years, it has been said that if one is from a rural area one should be able to build in it. I believe in that concept but we should not erect a cast-iron barrier against people moving into rural communities from outside because such people will be essential to the future development of such areas.

I share with Senator Brennan and others their sense of frustration with the operation of An Bord Pleanála. I urge the Minister to ensure that there will be a shake-up in that organisation's operations. In my short time in politics, I have seen many contradictory decisions emanating from An Bord Pleanála, so there needs to be more consistency in that regard.

I agree with Senator Bannon that the rural housing guidelines and the Taoiseach's pronouncements in Sligo three years ago have not been implemented in full in rural areas. I urge the Government to ensure that those guidelines are acted upon by local authorities and are included in local authority development plans.

Renewable energy is another area of interest to me. In recent years in County Kilkenny, a number of planning applications have been granted for wind turbines but they are not permitted by the Electricity Supply Board to connect to the national grid. I readily accept that there are areas of the country which are suitable for wind energy, while others are not. Where permission has been granted and where no local objections are raised, however, it is unacceptable for the ESB to continue to bar such turbines from connecting to the national grid. The Minister and his Cabinet colleagues should do something to prevent that blockage from occurring in future.

The Progressive Democrats' motion refers to establishing a national water and sewerage services authority but I never realised that it was part of the Progressive Democrats' political ethos to support the development of another quango. Senator Brennan referred to the role of the National Roads Authority. If the proposed new authority is envisaged as something along the lines of the NRA, I would oppose it tooth and nail. Earlier on I spoke about An Bord Pleanála but the National Roads Authority is very much a law unto itself. I would not like to see a similar authority being given powers over future water and sewerage developments. That function belongs directly to local authorities.

The Minister and the Government should ensure that adequate funding is provided for the upgrading, maintenance and installation of new sewerage schemes. There are three or four such schemes in Kilkenny. One scheme has been on the cards for 30 years in Kilmacow. It is progressing a little at the moment but it has been progressing for the past ten years and there is still no sign of any building blocks being laid. I could name umpteen other villages in Carlow and Kilkenny that suffer from similar problems. Rather than setting up another quango, therefore, we should invest in local authorities so that they can provide the necessary services.