Mary Henry (Independent)

Senator MacSharry has been well trained on the party message. I commend Senator O'Toole on his tenacity in following this problem over the years. He has raised the issue on several occasions, as has Senator Brian Hayes.

Having been involved in research within the universities, I hate to see the independent study by the energy research group in UCD, published in 2000, misused by the Minister when he says that the results of the study show that hollow block construction could be insulated. Nobody has said it could not be insulated. One could insulate a wigwam which would be quick and cheap to erect and take up little space. However, nobody suggests we should do something like this.

We agree hollow block houses could be insulated, but the problem is that this means young people will have to buy houses on which they will have to spend significant amounts to ensure they are energy efficient. This means they must spend significantly more than if the house had been built with solid blocks initially. The Government has known this for some time. It appears from Senator O'Toole's research that a great favour was done for producers of hollow blocks by suggesting they were quicker and cheaper, etc.

The Minister did not mention the word "quality". Does it matter what we erect or what sort of houses people must live in? Why can we not try to ensure the quality of what is being put in place. It is all very well to try to build them quickly and cheaply, but we need to ensure we also have quality housing, particularly in the social and affordable housing area.

A person contacted me recently about an apartment he was offered under the affordable housing scheme. People are desperate to get apartments, but this apartment was tiny. The kitchen was like a galley, rather like something one would find in a holiday apartment in Majorca or similar, which is fine for two weeks. There was no room for the fridge in the kitchen and it had to be in the utility room. There was space for a dishwasher, but what is the need for a dishwasher in that size of an apartment? The washing machine also needed to be in the utility area. The kitchen had no room for a table and only had a small worktop.

In the living room there was room for a sofa and an armchair, but no room for a table at which one could eat. We are trying to promote family life, but I do not know where two people could have sat to eat in these apartments unless they had TV dinners on their knees. It is outrageous to encourage people to live in such situations. The apartment had two bedrooms. The second bedroom was there to allow the owner let it to help pay for the mortgage because even though the apartment was part of affordable housing, it still cost €300,000.

If we continue to build and promote such schemes, we cannot complain about the fact that we have problems within family life. Who could bring up children in such situations? If people in such small apartments have a child, they have little room for them, but because they buy under the affordable housing scheme, they cannot sell it for ten years without paying the market price. This is an appalling situation for any young couple.

In the context of energy, the apartments have the old dinosaurs of heating — storage heaters — in very small rooms. These are expensive to run and take up an enormous amount of space. Also, electricity has risen 30% this year. We need to address this not just as a housing issue but as an issue that concerns the social fabric of the country. These apartments are cheap and quick to erect, but impossible to live in.

I commend Senator O'Toole on having raised this motion. The debate is timely because we must consider the sort of environment we want to bring forward for our young people. We spoke about young people being out racing their cars, but there is not much point in them sitting in if they live in this sort of situation. I suggest to the Minister of State that his response had little quality.