Maurice Hayes (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and thank the Leader for providing time for this debate.

I deeply regret Senator Ryan's address because it has made what I have to say entirely redundant and he has done so with great energy and elegance. My contribution will reiterate what has been said by Senators White and Terry. It is fitting that we pay tribute to Senator White for the efforts she has made in this field and for the accuracy of her research and the manner of its presentation.

This is a debate on the subject of ageism as defined by the Minister of State and not specifically a debate about services for the elderly which is a different subject. Ageism is about discriminating against people because of their age and specifically this debate is concentrating on the elderly end of the spectrum, although there are problems with regard to the age of consent for people at the younger end of the scale which the House will need to deal with.

This is not a case of providing for dependency. I will argue the case from the point of view of the economic, developmental and societal value. Age is a significant resource in society which can only be too easily cast aside and society would be very foolish not to make use of those assets. We are in danger of ignoring what is happening in society. Life expectancy is increasing dramatically, as is the health of people while they are alive at those ages. Limits which were set 70 years ago are no longer sensible.

Senator Ryan alluded to the demographic make-up and the shifting patterns of groupings in society. These used to be referred to as dependency ratios but I prefer to use another term. People no longer aspire to stay in the same job for all their lives. The days of a Guinness clerkship of the third class which Myles na gCopaleen used to talk about, which was permanent and pensionable forever, have gone. Jobs are cyclical in nature as technologies and developments overtake processors. Like Senator Ryan I do not think anybody should be forced to work and neither should anybody be forced out of work either.

Many of the special interest groups feared that when all the equality functions were pressed into one equality agency, there was a danger of some of the less vocal groups being overlooked. I worry a little about the idea of a general equality proofing because the cycle of activity over a lifetime needs to be considered or else it could be lost. While the Equality Act prohibits discrimination, it is time to put some flesh on the bones of the Act, and this is being proposed by Senator White.

The Minister of State said in his contribution that no upper age threshold is provided for but compulsory retirement ages may continue to be set. He explained why age limits are used at the younger end to prevent early school leaving but he gives no reason it is not possible to do away with the compulsory retirement age. The public service is in a position to do this and it should be the leader in this regard. Along with this should be a greater flexibility in the workplace and a greater ability to change from job to job or to step out for a while or to work for part of the week.

I work probably as much now as I did before I retired but it is in my own time. I can pick and choose whether to work. With due respect to Ministers, I am not depending on or waiting for a Minister. This sort of flexibility is desirable and if it were developed within the public service, it could easily be passed on to the private sector.

I started my life as a teacher at 20 years of age. I knew nothing except what I read in books and I was teaching boys who were only a couple of years younger than me. I have forgotten the books but I might now have something to teach people. A woman who has raised a family in hard times is in a far better position to talk about domestic economy to school students than a young college graduate of 20 or 22.

As a result of information technology, it is possible to work from any place and feed into information from anywhere in the world. The possibilities of IT to link people into the workforce should be examined in an imaginative way because this would enable them to continue to work. This may be a way of making the Government and the agencies concerned talk about other issues besides the elderly. It might be a way of getting them to discuss equal access to broadband services throughout the country. What are the fears of elderly people? They fear being alone and being mugged in their houses.

There is a range of issues related to security, the Garda, the Garda Reserve and various community supports. The objective should be to keep people as active as they can be for as long as they can be and in their own homes for as long as they can stay there. They should not need to worry about whether their homes need to be mortgaged. One of the most tragic things I have seen was the widow of a very good friend of mine who died last year aged 96. She was shifted from one nursing home to one that was not so good to a less good one as the funds, for which she had mortgaged her house, ran out.

As Senator Ryan said, keeping people active is a great inhibitor of the diseases of ageing, particularly Alzheimer's, etc. As considerable research has taken place into the subject, we can state that fairly categorically. This suggests that we should keep people active and support them in order to get enormous paybacks because hospital costs would be eliminated. While care in the community is not cheap, it is considerably cheaper than hospital care.

I understand the question of pensions is rightly being considered more widely. We need to ascertain how the pension systems that have been developed can be adapted to emerging lifestyles and needs. The message from this debate should be that old people are not asking for charity. They are not presenting themselves as cases for care. They are looking for the opportunity to make a continuing contribution to the economy and to social life from their own vast experience and the wisdom they have accumulated over the years.

Carers require special attention. Given that people are living to 80 or 90 years of age, they are often being looked after by their children, who themselves are increasingly fragile in their 60s and 70s. Given the Irish culture, most frequently they are daughters. Those carers need particular help and nobody should feel trapped as the one member of the family who must look after the elderly parent because others have gone off or because the State is not providing sufficient support.

It is encouraging that the Minister of State is here today. While the aspirations in the plan until 2016 are fine, we would like to see them fleshed out. We would like to see a timetable and would like to see the actions implemented earlier rather than later. I would like the Minister of State to take Senator White's document and do what he can to implement its proposals.