Brendan Ryan (Labour)

The faith of the Attorney General in scientific tests is naive and touching. Science is not as precise as that. If somebody applied for disability benefit and a scientific test was called for to prove he or she was suffering from clinical depression, it could not be done. Neither could a scientific test, such as those the Tánaiste outlined, prove someone was suffering from schizophrenia.

A number of red herrings arise. From the famous 15,000 quoted by the Tánaiste, how many of those relate to the infected batches between 1991-94? My understanding is that a good number of the 15,000, if not the vast majority, are in those categories of infected people. The point is that the particular infection they received is different from that which people contracted in the 1970s. The infection in the 1990s is treatable and the vast majority of those people have been cured. That is what clinical hepatologists are telling us. It is the Tánaiste's job to respond to this. The fact Canada or some other country was excessively harsh is interesting but not central to the issue.

Similarly, the fact that my party colleague, Mr. John Rogers SC had a hand in drafting a Bill does not give him any more authority as regards what is appropriate for diagnosing a particular illness. He is a lawyer, perhaps the best, and a former Attorney General. However, the Tánaiste and I are in the Oireachtas long enough to realise that Attorneys General get things wrong. Some of the great embarrassments of Government have happened because of Attorneys General either giving bad advice or having poorly run offices. I have a number of questions, but let us deal with the 15,000 first. What proportion of the 15,000 is accounted for by people infected between 1991-94?

I do not know the purpose of this. I believe the Department of Finance got at this legislation and, being staffed by good civil servants, wanted something that was defined and precise, and did not want the wooliness of general medical diagnosis. I will come back to scientific evidence later but first I want to talk about the 15,000, because the Tánaiste raised it.