Brendan Ryan (Labour)

I am intrigued that members of local authorities are being excluded because they might have a conflict of interest but business people could be on the authority who could end up, perfectly legitimately, doing business with the authority and who would have to declare their interest and remove themselves from the decision making process. The Minister appears to be saying that is okay because that is the way the world works but if local authority people were in that position they could not be trusted. Effectively, that is what the Minister is saying. Somebody who owned land the authority intended to compulsorily acquire could be a member of the authority. I am not suggesting it would be deliberate but people who owned land the local authority intended to acquire, either compulsorily or by commercial purchase, could be members of the authority. They would have to declare their interest and withdraw, which is fair enough, but apparently a local authority member cannot be trusted to do that in the rare event of a planning application. If the Minister is concerned about Fingal he should refer to members of Fingal County Council in the Bill if that is the issue.

The issue is that somebody somewhere, in the wonderful way in which legislation evolves, has now developed a standard section and it is included in all legislation unless somebody stands up and creates a row early on, and then it is left out. By and large, it goes into every item of legislation and it is not fair or right. It is totally different to exclude what are by and large full-time, professional politicians from the Dáil, Seanad and European Parliament but it is wrong to exclude members of, say, Athy Town Council, my home town. To suggest that somebody who attends a meeting of Athy Town Council once a month for two hours, does some local work around the place and who gets 120 votes in a local election is by virtue of that fact excluded from membership of a body such as this authority is entirely disproportionate and is using the classic sledge-hammer to crack a nut.

There is a rational argument for Oireachtas Members and Members of the European Parliament to be excluded. This is no more than a reflex response somewhere in the drafting process which has stretched this out to include members of local authorities. The Minister could have specified Dublin City Council or the local authorities in the area but it is wrong to suggest that the members of Athy Town Council, elected by 120 votes once every five years, have some potential level of conflict of interest as might be the case with a prominent business person. I have no problems about people of business acumen being on this authority. This is a reflex response which has become part of standard legislation. In his previous incarnation, this Minister was the sort of person who would have done something about that.