Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)

I would take that with a very large dollop of salt. He is absolutely right, however, in saying we need a national framework. We have one, namely, the right of any political party to question that national framework in the light of the circumstances we find ourselves in. There is absolutely no suggestion in our position since 2002, and in the series of amendments we have tabled, that we would depart from the principles and the purpose of the United Nations Charter. To use the Minister's phrase, no military adventurism is being proposed in this. It is simply a restatement in a much more modern context of existing policy, because we could not take part in any adventure, to use the Minister's words, unless it was absolutely rooted in the consent and the principles that apply from the United Nations.

Let us understand who are the countries that possess the power of veto, to which Senator Minihan referred. They are the United States of America, China, France, the United Kingdom and Russia. These are the countries which can decide at any stage, for their own selfish ends, to veto policy in this area. With the greatest respect to colleagues, we are abdicating our sovereignty to the United Kingdom, to the United States of America and to other countries should this situation arise. The point has been made that there has been one case — the celebrated case of Macedonia — and the law should not be changed on the basis of one case. If it happened once, it can happen again. We are now moving into a much more fluid situation, given the establishment of these new battle groups, and hopefully Ireland's participation therein. We must adapt our policy as a consequence of that.

Senator Mansergh referred to de Valera, someone I greatly admire, as I have recently told him, and the traditional policy of neutrality he developed. I am more with Lemass on this, however. Lemass was much clearer about Ireland's obligations in terms of the then embryonic European Community, now the European Union, when he said that if we are part of it we have got to defend it. The case of Macedonia was within the sphere of European influence. Resolution 1371 was passed for Macedonia and was enforced by NATO. It was clear that there was an obligation on the part of NATO, which wanted to hand the duty over to the Europeans. A total of 27 European countries were prepared to commit personnel to Macedonia, but Ireland was not.

Senator Ryan asked what can be done. There are legitimate things that we can do and which we have done so well in the past. The Irish come with considerable historical and current knowledge of peacekeeping. We are world renowned for it and we should make no apologies for it. In these amendments, we are trying to create a new policy which would ensure that other countries cannot get in the way of doing something that most Irish people want to support. There is no question of military adventures in these amendments. They are consistent with EU principles and EU consent. I am glad the amendments have provoked this debate, but it is a debate which needs to take place across the country. That debate will ultimately be decided by the country.

I respect the position of the Labour Party on this and I know the party respects our position. It is better to be up-front and honest with all parties about where one stands rather than having to change position after the election.