Brendan Ryan (Labour)

I am always rude about welcoming Ministers. I miss Deputy O'Donoghue as Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform because, while he was every bit as argumentative as his successor, he was much more good humoured in the process. That is a backhanded compliment, which he cannot repeat around the Cabinet table. I was spokesperson on justice issues when the Minister held the portfolio and I enjoyed our encounters. I could not fight with him as seriously about this legislation as I did about many issues we debated in the past.

The principle underpinning the legislation is fine. I was never in the Ceaucescu school of criticism of the Abbotstown project. I believe in the idea of using affluence to provide high quality publicly owned and controlled facilities. I have reservations about the concentration of resources in our capital city but resources alone should not be a constraint. Many questions are worth discussing. I am a sports enthusiast who attempted to play Gaelic football from a young age until I was too old to play. I ended up with a few dislocated joints because I played when I was too old to do so but I enjoyed every second of it.

I am not sure I enjoy watching games in which I have a passionate interest in one team. The stress and tension takes more out of me than the outcome. I enjoy a match such as last Sunday's Munster final more because I have a geographical allegiance to Cork and long-established familial allegiances to Tipperary. The outcome was, therefore, not as critical and I enjoyed the spectacle. I am sure I am not alone in wondering about those who use the term "the beautiful game" to describe association football because what we witnessed in Thurles last Sunday was a quantum leap beyond "the beautiful game" both in terms of skill and sportsmanship in comparison with the disgusting and dirty World Cup match on Sunday evening. The Munster final was a hard, tough game but I am not accustomed to the spectacle of the captain of an international team head butting an opposition player, whatever about the rough side of Gaelic games. There was an outcry over the so-called "battle of Omagh" between Tyrone and Dublin last year, during which many grown men, who should have had more sense, pushed each other. Nobody was hurt, no blood was spilled, no bones were broken and nobody was flattened on the ground by a head butt. The beautiful game was played out in Thurles last Sunday as far as many people, including myself, are concerned. The game on the other channel was a painful contrast, not only because of who was involved but because it was pathetically slow and indifferent.

Sport is of great importance. A study should be undertaken in which the career development of young children from poor areas with limited backgrounds who get involved in a sport is compared with that of children from similar backgrounds who do not. While I do not have evidence to support this, I predict a significant divergence. Young men, in particular, are interested in sports and cars. A youngster who has a passionate interest in something during his or her teenage years will overwhelmingly not have encounters with the law and so on. Sport keeps people busy and fit, helps them to maintain an interest in their physical well-being and gives them a reason to look after themselves.

Like everyone else, I remember surreptitiously having my first cigarette when I was 11 years old. While it is probably more like six years old nowadays, when I started, ten or 11 was the age at which most people began to smoke. Subsequently, I took up football seriously and decided that it was hard to reconcile both activities. Playing football served me well, if it did nothing more than keeping me from that habit.

I have no problem with the investment of large sums of money in sports facilities. However, I wish to raise some queries with the Minister in respect of this project. They pertain to potential exclusions from it, rather than its function. For example, the Minister referred to team sports, to elite players in team sports as well as to elite teams. I envisage the latter to be the national soccer, hockey and rugby teams. While I do not begrudge anything to any of them, how can such measures be available to the same degree to Gaelic football, hurling, camogie, women's football or any other sport without an elite national team? Such sports do not have a single team. While the international series with Australia is great and I appreciate it, it only lasts for a couple of weeks per year. The other sports do not have a serious year-round international competition and do not have professionals.

Members must be extremely careful not to create institutions, structures or physical facilities which in any way add to the pressure to professionalise Gaelic games. Anything which footballers and hurlers can earn from their image from outside the sport is fair game. I do not have a problem with any extra funds they can acquire from appearances, etc. However, as rugby people will affirm, getting paid for playing nearly destroyed rugby. Although one acquires a paid elite, in a country as small as Ireland, such players remain dependent on many voluntary workers. The existence of a paid elite makes it much more difficult to motivate volunteers. Ultimately, one ends up with a withering of the voluntary aspect. However, Members must wait and see what will happen.

The enormous popularity of soccer internationally has maintained its level of voluntary activity. However, soccer's huge international profile makes it unique. Despite the intense domestic support enjoyed by other games with a lower international profile such as rugby, hockey and Gaelic games in particular, the evolution of a position in which players were to be paid would eat away quickly at the ethos of the organisation involved. Hence, while I accept that players should not be paid, they should be rewarded and there are many ways of so doing. In some ways, such players are rewarded.

I want the Minister to clarify a point regarding Gaelic games. I support the Lansdowne Road project in principle and welcome the Government's commitment of large-scale funds as a decent stadium for international rugby and soccer is long overdue. While it was originally mooted that it would be suitable for playing Gaelic games, various stories have been floated subsequently to suggest otherwise. I want to know whether this is true, because my understanding was that during the soccer and rugby off-seasons, some of the smaller Gaelic games could be played there. In part, this was to pay for its development, to conserve Croke Park, as well as to provide a stadium of intermediate size between Parnell Park and Croke Park.

It should be noted that a bigger crowd attended Croke Park last Sunday than has attended any World Cup match thus far. This is because it is a bigger stadium than any of the stadia which have been used. The attendance of 70,000 people at a semi-final of a provincial championship between two amateur teams constitutes an extraordinary statement of the way we are. Hence, I wish to hear the Minister's comments in this regard.

The Minister referred to swimming pools. During the rough times of the late 1980s and early 1990s, a sizeable number of local authorities felt compelled to close down municipal swimming pools. What progress has been made in ensuring that such swimming pools in towns and small towns have been restored? The Minister does not require information in respect of the controversy concerning Douglas swimming pool in Cork and I imagine he is sick of representations in this regard. However, the issue of community facilities is critical. While I will not attempt to use this speech to lobby about the aforementioned swimming pool, the idea of large-scale, publically accessible facilities which are provided for people at an affordable price must be maintained. This matter is extremely important.

I am in a position to be a member of a private swimming pool in Cork for €600 or €700 per year. As my girth indicates, I do not use it nearly as much as I should. Nevertheless, if one uses such a pool for an hour or two per week, it works out as being cheaper than the amount someone with less access to liquid cash than me would pay to swim for two 40-minute periods in a municipal pool. This is unfair. There is nothing wrong with the private pool's price. It runs on a profit-making basis and consequently can afford to charge me €700. However, it is unfair that someone who swims two hours a week in a municipal pool nearly ends up paying more. In Cork, such people would pay close to €400 or €500 per year, whereas I pay €700 per year for limitless access from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. This is unfair and inequitable. We must ensure the provision of facilities which are accessible, available and affordable. The Minister should discuss this issue, if he has time and is in the humour for speculating.

While the Minister mentioned greyhounds, I will not discuss them, given my humour. The issue should be left for another day.