Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I also welcome the Minister of State to the House and echo Senator Minihan's final comments. I thank the Minister of State for her continuing contribution. It would be a fantastic legacy to have at least begun implementing the McIver report.

This issue is a source of serious anxiety. I cannot say that any better or more clearly than Senator Minihan. Whenever one speaks to people on the ground regarding this area of education, the first thing they mention is the McIver report. We saw these people outside the gate last year and discussed it in the House. At least those recommendations with which the Government agrees must be implemented. Time begins to catch up with some of them. I recognise that the financial commitment is very large and agree with Senator Minihan's point that these demands must take their place alongside others. Interest on this side of the House is no more wise than on the other, but we must see movement. As Senator Minihan said, we must move from intentions to actions. If we started ticking off what had been done, it would deliver a great boost to morale.

There are elements of the McIver report about which I have some questions. I would debate further education centres. I try to view things in the round, determining how the sector might advance in parallel with other aspects of society. I will begin by recalling something that I heard on radio a week ago. I was listening to Ryan Tubridy's show last Monday week, on which he had a group of people aged over 80. I was abroad, and it did me a great deal of good to hear those people aged between 80 and 100, with their zest for living and utterly optimistic view of the world. I have obviously never listened to Joe Duffy. Those people enjoyed living life. One woman aged 89 had provided a plug for the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Brennan, who had presented her with her European computer driving licence, ECDL. To me, that is all that I need to hear about adult and further education.

Everyone will know whom I mean when I speak of a man who came before committees perhaps once a month over the past ten years. I am referring to the former head of IFSRA, who retired on 1 February this year. He moved the organisation from being the Central Bank to a new role. His management was well regarded, and he attended committee meetings. I crossed swords with him in many different contexts and recognised and respected his contribution. I met him the week after he had retired at a brief function for him and asked him what he would do with himself. He said that he had enrolled in college, where he would begin a postgraduate degree in pure physics on 1 September. That is what we need to hear. He lived in the university city of Dublin and intended to return to third level education, while the woman of whom I spoke went down to her local further education centre to study for a European computer driving licence.

Those are the success stories, and there is great demand for such services. In September of any year, the No. 1 bestseller in any town is the list of night courses for the year, showing what appetite exists. I want to move that forward and examine what we could and should be doing.

That brings us back to the issue of broadband. We have all heard the debates, and we are on overload. The roll-out of broadband is simply not happening. I remember saying from this seat that the day we sold Telecom Éireann and lost ownership of that copper wire it was clear we would never get broadband to Belmullet. While I acknowledge that Belmullet now does have broadband, there are many places between here and there that do not, including north Dublin. The only way to do that is to forget about ground connections and have satellite broadband all over the country. It would not be a huge investment, but it would be a very good one, meaning that one could have broadband everywhere.

I say that because just across the square is Hibernia College, which is now offering postgraduate teacher training courses. There is a great deal of controversy, since opinion is divided as to whether that is the way forward. The fact is that it is happening, and if there are problems, they can be resolved. There is certainly a process. The college is also offering degrees for professional people. I raise that because an adult in Kilbaha or Loop Head in the Minister of State's constituency is a long way from a university and other centres. There is great potential, particularly in women in the west of Ireland, who are bursting with energy and intellect that might enable them to make a different kind of contribution. I do not suggest for a moment that they are not making a contribution in what they are doing, but they could advance themselves by taking on new roles.

I could make the same point regarding teachers in peripheral areas, who I know would like to study further. Many of them use the Open University. I do not know how one could make it accessible in a supportive way, with grants and so on for people around the country, but it offers a useful way forward. It is crucial that we open up to people, showing them what is available and allowing them to obtain qualifications and move on. It is now possible to gain professional qualifications on-line, such as through Hibernia College, which provides courses in teacher training, criminology and other legal subjects. One must have contact time at various points in the year, but one can do that at one's own convenience. There are great savings, and such courses contribute a great deal.

Another area is that of arts and culture, in which the Minister of State has gained experience over the years. If one was to visit the National Concert Hall, which is located in my constituency, on a Saturday night, one would discover that the audience is upper middle-class. Those who attend performances at this venue tend to be people with swanky accents. Why is this the case? At one stage, fine writers such as Brendan Behan and Seán O'Casey emerged from the ranks of the artisan, craft and trades classes. However, this is no longer the case. It now appears that one needs to be a graduate or have a white-collar job to understand Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. This is not the way it should be. It would be wonderful if we could show people from my own social class that an appreciation of good music and art is as likely to be found in the Willie Clancy Summer School as it is in the National Concert Hall. A confidence gap exists. People must believe and understand that art is their milieu and that whatever activities Muiris Ó Rocháin is engaged in down in Spanish Point is part of further education and the appreciation of our culture. At the same time, these people must realise that there is nothing wrong with playing jazz in Carrigaholt or wherever the jazz festival in County Clare is held. I have tried to wander around the Minister of State's constituency in my mind and I do not think I am doing too badly.

The Minister of State's own town of Ennis was the leading town in Ireland for establishing itself in the IT field. It was either the first or second ranked town in Ireland in the league of best-connected IT towns some years ago. This produces extraordinary potential for energy which we are not using.

There is considerable interest in alternative and renewable energy in the west of Ireland, about which we must learn. There is a considerable amount of material to be learned. People must be drawn into further and adult education and understand how they can contribute to alternative and renewable energy, appreciate nature and have a love of the environment, which does not mean one cannot build a house. They need the confidence to make these judgments.

We must constantly connect further and adult education with developments in the wider world. Therefore, it must be tied into broadband and IT and the needs, policies and issues of the day so that ordinary people begin to see how waste might be managed and object to ridiculous proposals. I want people to be immersed in cultural activities if they so wish. Every apprenticeship should include a period of time spent examining drama or music because it would unlock a considerable amount of energy. I know a very successful Irish artist, one of whose paintings was featured in last week's newspapers and who painted the last portrait of Charles Haughey. He explained that he discovered his artistic bent when he began teaching art in primary school. Both of us have agreed many times that it is not enough to trust to this kind of serendipity. The education system failed him because his artistic nature should have been discovered as he progressed through the system. There must be many people like him who may have artistic talents within them which must be drawn out. I conclude by thanking the Minister of State for her continued commitment to adult and further education. The real measure will not be our words but the ticking off of the recommendations in the McIver report as they are being implemented.