Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)

The national pay talks resume this afternoon in Government buildings. While broad agreement has been reached between the social partners on pay and employment standards, pensions are proving to be a stumbling block. I welcome the fact that the Irish Congress of Trade Unions is at last paying attention to the issue of pensions in light of one of the biggest banks in the country stating that new entrants will only be on defined contribution pension schemes instead of defined benefit schemes, as enjoyed by current employees.

After many debates in the House and my pressing the Minister, I have finally secured information from the Department of Social and Family Affairs that there are 50,000 on deferred frozen benefits. Those are people who paid into pension schemes over the years and whose pensions have not been revalued.

I am not sure how the Acting Leader could deliver a message to the Taoiseach's representative at the social partnership talks today to say that where an employer fails to give a guaranteed pension benefit, the employees should be allowed to opt out of the company pension scheme and receive the benefit and financial incentive instead. The time has come where we must admit that when pensions are not delivering, employers must pay up and instead give the remuneration to the employees.

It is a good thing that pensions are finally being recognised as a major problem. The pensions industry has ripped people off while the Government did nothing to prevent it taking money from people with no guaranteed return. This could be a good opportunity for people to get what they deserve. If the pensions industry and employers cannot deliver guaranteed pensions, they should give the employees remuneration instead.