Geraldine Feeney (Fianna Fail)

I am pleased to welcome this Bill. Much has been said about the overcharging of elderly long-stay patients in public nursing homes. Earlier today I watched the debate in my office as I made some notes. It appeared to be a balanced debate. However, I am now of the opinion that it is only somewhat balanced because there is some political point scoring taking place. That saddens me because this issue was a huge political football when it was debated some months ago.

Senator Quinn said the Government was again embarrassed this week with the introduction of this legislation in the House after having been so embarrassed last week. I was away last week on Oireachtas health committee business but I followed what happened. Senator Quinn and other people who think the Government might be embarrassed should note that I sat with Senator Browne on the health committee that considered the Travers report and conducted an intense investigation of its findings. Indeed, the committee sat for months hearing evidence. What I took from Mr. Travers's report was that mistakes were made but that it would be wrong to try to apportion blame to any one particular Government, that the mistake stemmed back over 30 years and all Governments of all persuasions, if one was to apportion blame, would have blame mounted on them. It is wrong to say it is a Government problem and that the Government did not pick up the ball quickly enough.

I take my hat off to the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, who, when she became aware something was wrong, acted quickly and engaged Mr. Travers who worked long hours during the Christmas holiday to provide her with the report. We are at a stage where the Government believes repayment should be made and rightly so. The money illegally taken from elderly patients should be paid back. The amount cited of €1 billion is a large sum in anyone's language, particularly when equated to the overall health budget of €12 billion.

The Bill provides that those persons who were wrongly charged and are still alive, including the estates of persons who were wrongly charged, and have passed on since December 1998, will have every penny taken from them paid back in full. I do not know if account has been taken of inflation or interest paid on the money owed to those involved. Others speakers have said that 20,000 such patients are still alive and between 40,000 and 50,000 will have their estates benefited to the amount outstanding.

I listened with interest to what Senator Ryan had to say. My aunt died in a public nursing home. Her family has told me that their mother was so well looked after, no money could have bought them the care she got in a private nursing home. They were very pleased. I could say that is one family that will not be looking for whatever money is being repaid to their mother because they were very pleased with the care she was afforded. Where a family does not wish to take the money being repaid for their loved one, it should be able to give it to the institution which looked after that person. Such money would then be given to local institutions in Sligo, Athy, Tullamore, Bantry or wherever the hospital or nursing home is located. I ask the Minister of State to examine that issue because, as Senator Ryan has said, we are putting money back into a big pot and much of it might go on administrative duties rather than helping over-stretched units in which loved ones had been cared for. It is important that local units benefit from whatever money is repaid in the event of a person not taking it, whether the loved one has passed away or is still living and may not need it.

The important issue is the care of the elderly, and their needs must be to the fore in developing policy in the future. In some cases vulnerable people would have nobody to speak up for them, in other cases where families could speak up, they were afraid to do so in case their loved ones might not get the care and attention they deserved. We should ensure this practice will never happen again. As Senator Ryan has said, other Departments should look at this issue and examine their own codes of practice, particularly payment charges, to ensure they are above board.

Section 17(2) provides for the recovery of any moneys obtained through fraud or overpayment. Every euro must be repaid correctly and promptly. Given the enormity of the sum outlined earlier, due care must be taken that sums are repaid to the correct person or to those people's estates. Section 16 which is equally important provides for an appeals mechanism to be put in place for those who believe they may not have been dealt with fairly in the repayment process. Hopefully it will not be necessary to use this section but, if so, at least it exists.

I am pleased the Bill deals with the unfortunate situation of patients who have a degree of mental or intellectual impairment. It will ensure that where there has been a deterioration in the intellectual capacity of a patient, his or her rights are protected by the use of a patient private property account and that any funds accruing to the patient in this category will be used for the benefit of that individual and that the money can be invested on behalf of the said patient.

I heard somebody speak of applications made to the agency that will look after the payments that have not been acknowledged. These cases arise where families or people involved in the overcharging are waiting to recoup what has been taken from them. That is wrong because we are dealing with vulnerable people. They should at least be afforded a short letter stating that the application has been received and is being dealt with and that the agency will be contact in due course. Many of those people may have nothing else to worry about and may sit or lie all day long wondering if they filled in the form correctly or if it was received.

I commend the Bill and look forward to the subsequent Stages.