John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)

Senator Jim Walsh referred to the tribunals. He is correct that they have been ongoing for a long time but they were established by a resolution of these Houses. He also made a reasonable point with regard to the rules of evidence, which appear to be different from those of the courts, whereby people's good names can be brought down on the basis of hearsay evidence.

We join Senator John Paul Phelan in extending good wishes to students sitting the leaving certificate examination. Being young, he can remember doing his leaving certificate. Perhaps all of us can remember doing it, irrespective of age.

Senator Terry referred to the national pay talks. I agree that pensions are an important aspect of the talks and I am glad attention is being paid to the issue. I am not sure about permitting opt-outs. Experience shows that where they are allowed, people are not inclined to take up pensions. It is most important that they have pensions and, for that reason, the State has an obligation to try to ensure that they do. It is an issue that can be debated in the wider context of, hopefully, the successful outcome of the partnership talks which will no doubt be debated in the House.