Pat Gallagher (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)

In the course of the debate on Committee Stage, I said sincerely that I wanted some time to think about this matter. We drew clear water between the position of members of the European Parliament, the Oireachtas and local authorities. I was a member of a local authority and served my time in what I would describe as the university of politics in the local authority. I was involved in LAMA at the early stage. I have respect for all public representatives, including those at the coalface who take the punches for us, given that we cannot be represented due to the legislation which stipulates that Members of the Oireachtas cannot be members of local authorities.

I want to repeat what I said last evening and I do not want to sound facetious. I fully appreciate the genuine case made by Senators Ulick Burke, Paddy Burke, Wilson, Walsh, Feeney, Mooney, Cummins, Dooley, Bannon and Brian Hayes. Last evening I said there were Senators who were not elected by councillors and they also made the case. Let us put that aside. There is no question of my insinuating in any way that Senators are looking after the interests of their electorates. I believe they are not and are making the case sincerely.

The proposed amendment by Senators Paddy Burke and Hayes has widespread appeal across the political divide in the House. I am sure every Senator holds the same view because those who have spoken are a microcosm of the entire Chamber. The amendments sought to include Members of the Oireachtas, Members of the European Parliament and members of local authorities on the board. It is not a slur or a question of members not knowing anything about road safety, being unqualified, as was suggested, or not having expertise. I appreciate they all have expertise. Senator Feeney suggested there should be a prescribed body that would include young people. I remind Senator Feeney there are a number of young people on the board with expertise who will reflect the view of rally drivers or the younger generation.

If local authority members were to be included on the board there is no compulsion on this Minister or any Minister in the future to appoint them. However, it is the principle that concerns Senators. I draw Senators' attention to section 7 which provides that when preparing a programme the authority "shall", not "may", consult with each State agency responsible for implementation of measures contained in it. "State agency", which is defined in the Bill, includes the local authority. Section 7(6) reads, "In this section "State agency" means the Garda Síochána, a local authority, the National Roads Authority or such other person as the Minister considers appropriate."

Had it not been defined I would have had to flesh it out today so the Minister would consider it appropriate. The local authority is involved. The road safety authority shall consult with local authorities. That means the authority will have to establish advisory committees. If the authority is to consult with them, that is an opportunity for local authorities. That is a much stronger provision.

The fact is we can do that and not appoint them. It is more important to do it this way and that they can feed directly into the board. Section 7 does not preclude members of local authorities. Therefore, the experience of local authority members gained over many years is not lost. I concur with the contributions of Senators that they can and will make a major contribution. That section includes local authority members.

I am aware from the debate on Committee Stage that this may not necessarily be what Senators require. I genuinely thought about this matter, not just after I left the House, but in the early hours of the morning I was still trying to come to terms with it. From 7 a.m. I had calls from a number of people on this side of the House who are in the difficult position of having to vote for something in which they do not believe. I wish to make it clear to local authority members that they will be included. More members of local authorities can be included on advisory committees than if one were to be appointed to the board of such a committee.

We are living in the days when it is not appropriate to have Oireachtas Members on the board because there is a conflict of interest. We are legislators. Local authorities will also have an input. They are responsible for signage and other factors that could impinge in some way. The local authority will establish advisory committees which will include appropriate representation from local authorities where this is necessary.

While I am not accepting the amendments, there will be stronger local authority representation and a stronger feed into the National Roads Authority on those advisory committees. Senators will be aware that a procedure is in place where councillors from various parts of the country feed into the Health Service Executive. I genuinely regret I cannot accept the amendment. I had much consultation up until the last minute with councillors from both sides of the House. I refer Members to section 7. I do not suggest it is a compromise but that it is even stronger.