John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, to the House to debate what is obviously an important matter. When we look back on this period 20 years hence, we will wonder how society allowed our environment to be damaged to such an extent. We have remembered other times where people suffered physical and sexual violence, major sources of anger, controversy and pain. In 20 years, we will look back and ask how we allowed ourselves to treat the environment like this.

Happily, however, matters are improving, and in my experience of being a member of a local authority, from the time that I joined it until today, there has been an enormous improvement. We had a landfill site close to my home from which methane gas leaked. People had to be evacuated when it got into fissures in the rock, since it had not been properly sealed. The management was totally inadequate, and people simply did not know the effects of landfill, both in the immediate vicinity and, probably more importantly in the long term, on ground water. They were badly managed, and part of the problem was that the resources to deal with it were simply not there.

Fortunately, that is no longer the case, and now at the same landfill facility we have a recycling part. When I started using it, one could drive to it quite easily on a Saturday or any other morning. Now there is a traffic control system, since so many people are using it. They must pay for it, and while they are not charged at the gate, bringing materials there has its cost. The public has some appetite for recycling and separation, and happily that is happening before our waste is collected from outside our homes.

Senator Bannon made a reasonable point regarding farm plastics, the situation regarding which has fortunately improved. I can recall farm chemicals and how one wound up with a store of half-empty cans and so on of which one simply could not dispose. Now I can bring them to my local landfill site free of charge for disposal, a very positive development. There have been heartening changes.

The Minister of State made a valuable point when he said that we must all make an effort, since a consensus is involved in this question. That means everybody, every home, workplace, farm and business. We are definitely in a transition from the unsophisticated kind of system of which I spoke to one that is much more multidimensional. We have moved from total dependence on landfill to, one hopes, new practices.

Ultimately, it may lead us to the point where we will have to consider burning waste and recovering the energy. As fossil fuels become more limited and energy more expensive, that source of energy will have its attractions. For years I watched how methane gas, an obvious source of energy, was flared from a landfill. Now Kildare County Council is harnessing that energy, which is going into the national grid. The requisite technology exists, although I agree that it must be done on a large scale to make it economic and derive the greatest benefit.

I wonder about those who get so excited regarding the possibility that dioxins might emerge from a chimney stack with very new technology, despite their happily burning material in their back garden, probably creating far more dioxins in their immediate environment. They would also allow landfill to pollute waterways and ground water, but that does not seem to register with the public, something I cannot understand. Reference was made to the waste hierarchy of prevent, minimise, reuse, recycle, recover and safely dispose, while the polluter pays concept is also important.

I concur with the remarks made by Senator O'Toole with regard to composting. My local authority, Kildare County Council, has been proactive in terms of explaining how composting works because only about ten people originally applied for bins, even though the council was offering them free of charge. I appeal to the Minister of State to ensure that people are given information because, while the appetite exists to make use of compost bins, people have concerns about issues, such as vermin, which can be readily resolved. Kildare County Council has held a number of well attended meetings to explain composting and continues to do a good job in this regard.

The Government is to be commended on launching the waste management grant scheme in 2002 to provide funding for the provision of waste recycling and recovery infrastructure. I understand that several tens of millions of euro have been spent under that scheme.

Local authorities have primary responsibility for waste management but an exclusive focus on them may lead us to neglect the responsibility of the individual. Information is important in ensuring that individuals can exercise their options but responsibility rests with each of us to prevent, minimise and reuse. The duty of the State and local authorities is to facilitate rather than intervene or hold hands. As we have learned from the smoking ban, changing individual behaviour is a difficult and slow process but change can be affected if a proactive and supportive approach is taken. Society as a whole would derive enormous benefits from change in the area of waste management.

Much progress has already been made with regard to recycling centres but more facilities are needed. Bottle banks and other local facilities have to be well managed if they are to be effective. It can be unpleasant, when recycling bottles or cans, to find a recycling facility covered with other people's litter. Litter wardens in my local authority area have been very active in this regard, despite being subjected to extensive abuse. However, more should be done on the issue of fly-tipping. I dreamed up a law, the first law of takeaway, which states that the average family in the average car travelling at the average speed consumes one takeaway meal in 1.5 miles. I know this because I live 1.5 miles away from a takeaway and have to pick up the rubbish thrown from cars passing my gate. I am not claiming that Supermacs or McDonalds should be forced to pay for the disposal of this waste because that is the responsibility of the person who takes away the food. However, litter wardens can help control this problem.

The plastic bag environmental levy was a successful initiative. When the 15 cent charge was introduced on 14 March 2002, the number of stray and waste bags along our roadways decreased significantly. It was estimated at the time that approximately 1.2 million bags had been provided for free. About six years ago, I met a senior executive from an American corporation who was holidaying in the west of Ireland. He told me that his two dislikes about Ireland were litter and smoking in pubs. I thought at the time that something could be done about litter but smoking in pubs could not be addressed. However, we have perhaps been more successful in stopping the latter. A strong case could be made for doubling the levy because anecdotal evidence suggests its effect is wearing off. It is increasingly common to be handed a plastic bag when shopping and the incentive is diminishing as money becomes less valuable.

While I concur with some of Senator Bannon's remarks on waste, I consider the revised farm plastics scheme announced two weeks ago to represent a major improvement. We are all aware that difficulties existed but funding will be supplied by means of a combination of levies paid by the producer members who run the scheme and charges from weight-based collections.

The standard cost bin system did not provide an incentive to separate and recycle. People who reduced the amount of waste they put in their bins did not do so to reduce their charges but because they were good citizens. There should be some integration in this area.

Senator O'Toole raised the issue of a regulator but I am unsure whether one is required. The Environmental Protection Agency, which has greatly improved its licensing procedures, may already be fulfilling the role of regulator in respect of its issuing of licences and oversight of the system.

People need an incentive in terms of reducing their charges. I have a holiday home in Galway, where waste is divided among blue, white and green bags. These bags have to be individually purchased from shops, which provides an incentive to separate waste. Good citizenship is also required but a lot of people will, if given the opportunity, follow the proper procedures. I urge the Minister of State to ensure they are encouraged to be responsible, so we can look back on the present as a time of transformation in terms of how we treat our waste and look after our country. Our tourism and food industries would benefit from a clean, green and pollution-free island.