Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. After reading the report and listening to the comments in this debate, I do not like the idea of ghettoisation, even though I know it is not what the committee intended. There is an element of ghettoisation in hiving responsibility off to another new Department. This would mean that immigrants could be told to deal with the Department of immigrants rather than with the Department of Education and Science or the Department of Health and Children. I do not think public representatives or trade unions representing people with a need should have to deal with a Department of immigration, which would then have to deal with the Department of Health and Science or the Department of Education and Science or whatever. It would result in a new tier of bureaucracy. While the proposal is well made in the report, I did not find it convincing. The issue of newcomer children in schools should be dealt with by the Department of Education and Science rather than trying to create a whole series of people with expertise in education in a brand new Department, which would not work.

We also need to consider the cultural element. While many people do not like to hear it, it is worth stating again that the second most spoken language in this country is Mandarin Chinese. It is a very significant change from people's expectations. Given the numbers of people who have come to this country from Poland and other countries, the position of Gaeilge could soon drop from third to fourth or fifth.

We also need to examine how to integrate these people so they can make a positive contribution in order to develop our culture. While the Minister of State's county is the home of aspects of Irish music culture, I have also met some old-fashioned people who feel that the music of 100 years ago should never change. They believe that if Ms Shannon gives the odd extra burl when playing a jig or reel, it should be questioned. Bringing new instruments or new people into our culture is important, and the musical fusion this could create will be important. Organisations such as the GAA, the FAI and the IRFU will also welcome new blood.

We should have outgrown the concept of multiculturalism because it gives a completely wrong impression. This idea of giving each group their own space within society is not what should happen. The object must be interculturalism, where people from different cultural backgrounds merge together and work together to create a new integrated community. The words "assimilation" and "integration" raise peoples' hackles. However, it depends what is meant by these phrases.

Integration and assimilation should not mean telling people that they cannot speak Chinese and stick to their own games, that they must play our games and speak our language. It should mean they should speak our language and play our games also so we can learn from them and they can learn from us. We should try to establish a quality of engagement between both cultural groups, not create ghettoes where each culture looks after their own space. There is nothing to be proud about having a Muslim school in Dublin. While there is nothing wrong with it, it is not a recognition of a great leap forward. It is more or less saying to people that we do not want them, even though that is not the intention. My concept of interculturalism is people growing, being educated and living together.

I believe our gene pool needs a bit of help from some outsiders. I would welcome some additional new and different blood with new ideas. Perhaps we would be less pale or less ruddy like me. I say that as someone who comes from a part of the country, west Kerry, where the only definition of a true west Kerry person is that he or she will not have pure blood.