Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I also welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Killeen, to the House. I also wish to thank him and show appreciation for the work he does in his Department.

This issue demands much of our time. This morning's debate has been extremely positive and supportive of the issues, which demonstrates a great understanding on the part of Members. What bothers me most about this debate is the manner in which it is conducted in the pubs and clubs. Senator McDowell made the point earlier that when one hears of "them" taking "our" jobs, one must inquire as to which jobs are at issue and should ask someone to point them out. What jobs do immigrants perform which we want either our children or ourselves to do? In other words, the question should not be permitted to hang rhetorically, but should be addressed each time. People should be pushed to explain and articulate their exact viewpoints.

Although Members have failed to promulgate this point, the reality is that the economy would die on its feet were the hundreds of thousands of migrant workers to leave. People do not understand this point. People in receipt of social welfare benefits or pensions do not realise that nowadays, the people who create the requisite wealth come, in large part, from outside this country. Not only should we tolerate them, we need them and must acknowledge and appreciate them.

There is another issue which has not been considered, namely, that the ordinary citizenry do not accept or recognise that in every country in the world where there has been a wave of immigrants, the children of these immigrants have given a major boost to the economy. We are getting something which is quite novel. We are getting a significant fillip from current immigrants and we can look forward to a further fillip from their children when they contribute to the economy of the country.

Their commitment to education is extraordinary. I visited a school in the Minister of State's constituency last year and the principal said that, given all the difficulties, she would be quite prepared to have a school full of non-nationals, particularly English-speaking non-nationals, in terms of their interest, enthusiasm, appetite for education and the interest and support of their parents. She gave me chapter and verse in explaining how well the system operated. She said she wished some of the indigenous parents had the same interest and commitment to education. One can imagine the added value these children will bring to our economy when they come through third level education or whatever.

The Minister of State should use every opportunity to sell this message. He has a significant brief dealing with workers' rights and the need to protect immigrants, the positive aspect of which is escaping the notice of many elected public representatives. However, this debate has been very positive. It is also a fact that the work the Minister of State is doing to protect foreign workers from exploitation is crucially important. If we get the reputation of being other than fair to all workers, we will no longer be seen as an attractive country in which people will invest. There will be a spin-off in this regard in the future.

I agree with the point made by Senators Dardis and Mansergh on the need for a Department to deal with the issue. I disagree slightly with Senator Mansergh about the renaming and rejuggling of Departments. I always thought it had more to do with beginning a new contract for secretaries general, so they could start the clock on a new seven years, rather than with the appropriate needs.