Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)

I used to have very clandestine meetings with Senator O'Toole and Mr. Kieran Mulvey of the ASTI. These meetings were often held before attending a conference in order to hammer out points of view. I recall that we met in the Gresham Hotel. Ministers hold clinics all the time. I never had a note taker in my clinic; I took my own notes. People come to see their representatives in their clinics. If a man or woman expresses a wish for a meeting, one must meet them, and one does not have a note taker in one's handbag. I recall circular 20/87 was issued when I was Minister for Education. Things were so difficult there used to be five and six buses outside our house transporting whole schools, including boards of management and parents. My husband, Enda, used to say that he would set up a burger stall.

To go back to the point the Senator raised, it is a good Minister who has the confidence to meet someone and get various points of view without having a civil servant tucked in his or her pocket. Obviously, if one is meeting someone in the Department, there are plenty of notetakers and plenty of people to kick one under the table and say, "No, we are not doing that. You cannot do that. You cannot say that." However, one must get informed informal opinion, which is good for equity in a situation.

The debate on Senator Quinn's energy policy next week will be welcome. Senator Hayes also raised the issue. We did not shoot down Senator Quinn on nuclear energy. We said the issue should be debated. The Senator raised the ethical aspect of taking nuclear energy via the interconnector. As a Senator said, various bits do not come out labelled as coming from a nuclear plant. It is all muddled in together and it all comes out together. We already do the same with electricity from Scotland, which has approximately three nuclear plants. It is one of these principles which, in theory, one should be ethical about, but because it all goes into the mix, what comes out is mixed up anyway. I recall having that discussion when I was Minister for Public Enterprise. I look forward to the debate with Senator Quinn. I thank him for his letter of apology for not being here for a particular debate because he was travelling to Helsinki. During the debate next week, he will be able to tell us about his experience in Helsinki. The debate will be extended for an hour and a half next week because several Senators who wanted to contribute were not able to do so.

Senator O'Toole referred to Mr. Eddie O'Connor's renewable energy proposal for a linked series of windfarms from the Baltic countries to the Arklow banks, which sounds an amazing adventure. It would be wonderful if this could happen. The principle is exotic and interesting. One can imagine the wind that blows in the Baltic blowing again in Arklow because of the energy created. I agree that Mr. O'Connor is a genius. What he is proposing is very adventurous.

The Senator asked about the press council, as did Senator Moylan. The defamation Bill is expected to be published during this session. However, a prior debate on the issue might be helpful because we could express ideas on the matter. Senator O'Toole expressed an apology, as did Senator Ryan. I am so perfect; I am searching my mind for an apology. I apologise if I was nasty to anyone. Senator Ryan expressed an apology regarding the Bill, which I opened this morning with great excitement. We will debate the need for a genealogical aspect to be included in the Bill.

The Senator made a valid point about the latest horror story of energy charges increasing by 40% to 80%. They always begin at 40%. An increase in the standard charge is stupid because it has nothing to do with the price of the original component. This matter will also be debated next week. I have a horror story to tell about the ESB.

The Senator said that countries with the highest maternity benefit have the greatest competitiveness. This is because women return to work delighted with themselves and full of energy having had time off to care for their babies. He also raised the question of the country of origin of textiles not being noted on garments, with which the EU has difficulty. Senator Quinn explained about this later.

Senator Mansergh said that Ministers of all hues hold clinics and informal meetings. He also referred to the fact that the moratorium was lifted in the other House arising from the input of a Deputy from another party. I thank him for bringing the matter to our attention. It was good research.

The point raised here was that a moratorium was in place, which was then lifted, although we did not know that. I thank the Senator for his research. Dr. Mansergh also talked about the Baltic countries who wish to join the eurozone, but whose inflation rates are 0.1% above the limit. He asked that their applications be considered with the same tolerance as those of countries with enormous monetary difficulties.

Senator Coghlan raised the matter of the ministerial handbook and the ethical guidelines for semi-State companies. He spoke of one State company that threw away the book and insisted on nominating a man to the board. I have always felt that more women should be involved but one cannot force that on people. A woman is a woman, a man is a man, and the matter cannot be forced. I remember during one general election campaign, a slogan was used which said "Why not a woman?" Its aim was to encourage people to vote for a woman but I found it very derogatory. Why not a woman? Why not a mermaid? Why not whatever? I did not like the idea behind it. One votes for a person based on his or her competence, hopefully.

Senator Moylan asked for a debate on the press council. We might have a preparatory debate on the issue, with reference to the Roscommon footballer. Senator Quinn referred to the Road Safety Authority Bill and Private Members' time next week. He also said that he understood the EU caution on labelling. I did not quite understand his point and perhaps he will explain it to me later.

Senator Hanafin raised the matter of energy policy. I accept his point that Shell has issued an apology and I hope that whatever thread contained therein can be drawn out to create a new atmosphere whereby what is a most desirable commodity can be brought ashore for the people of Ireland. However, many people remained quite hardened in their positions on the issue.

Senator McHugh referred to a conference on renewable energy. The local authorities have been very proactive in this regard. Two weeks ago Longford County Council hosted a remarkable conference on renewable energy, at which a professor from Finland spoke. Kildare County Council has solar panels to light all of its premises. The Senator also asked about the Youth Work Act, to be administered by the VECs. I will follow up on that issue.

I received a telephone call yesterday from Mr. Tom Butler of ComReg. He previously worked in the Houses of the Oireachtas and was a Labour Party activist. I knew him quite well and recognised his voice when he called. He watches "Oireachtas Report" and heard what was said in the Chamber about mass and community news broadcasts for elderly and isolated people. He was very interested in the discussion and was most complimentary about the comments made. He asked me to explain to the House that ComReg is working on the issue and has benign feelings about it. It hopes to be able to resolve the matter soon and I am glad to report that to the House. It is not often that one gets feedback such as that. I asked Mr. Butler how he knew about our discussion and he said he watches "Oireachtas Report". He also said that he finds the Order of Business in the Seanad fascinating.