Camillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)

Tá seanfhocal ann, agus séard a deireann sé ná: ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scolb. Is fíor é sin a rá. The old adage is that the day of the wind is not the day of the scollops. Hence, this Government's measure as regards the National Pensions Reserve Fund was proactive and clearly took into account a number of factors, namely, family numbers are decreasing and people are living longer. At yesterday's meeting of the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs, some important statistics were presented pertaining to the number of people living beyond a certain age, in contrast to what the situation was some years ago.

Another development was that people should be allowed to work longer after the age of 65. I believe that one of the greatest causes of the brain drain was people leaving certain services. This argument does not pertain to all services. A person can be old at 45, while someone who is 70 can be young in terms of their respective mental and physical capabilities. We must take into account people who have had to leave the public sector workforce, especially women. I am speaking specifically about women who had to leave the public service because of the marriage bar. I am not sure that this particular situation has been addressed and I ask the Minister of State to do so.

I strongly support the comments made by Senators Leyden, Tuffy and others pertaining to the pension for councillors. I will give the Minister of State an example of, say, Joe and Pat, who were the same age on 1 July 1966. One became a member of Westmeath County Council and the other became a carpenter. On 30 June 2006 they will retire. The carpenter will leave with his pension and gratuity, and rightly so. The councillor will leave with a few bob from some time in May 2000 and not a cent of a pension.

I joined the local authority in 1979 and can assert that the activities and commitment that must be given today are greatly different to that which obtained then. It is a totally different ballgame, a full-time job. I am not specifically talking about county councillors. I am referring to city, borough, urban councillors and town commissioners as well, who should all be taken into the loop and the appropriate mechanism found to award them pensions. Senator Leyden is correct. I am not going to parrot what he said, but I support it, because it is the truth.

As regards the investment of the pensions reserve fund, it would be remiss of this or any Government in preparing for the future not to endeavour to make the money work for it. As the Minister of State said in his concluding remarks, it is not the entire panacea that will resolve this difficulty, but only part of it. He said the establishment of the reserve fund would not of itself solve the pensions issue or all the problems posed by population ageing. It assists considerably, however, he said, in putting the public pensions system onto a sustainable basis.

I agree with Senator Leyden that there should not be an amendment to this motion. Politics aside, this has been one of the most proactive measures taken by any Government in my lifetime in ensuring that the people who built this State and those who are building it, will have a future in terms of pension rights.