Joe O'Toole (Independent)

——with people such as myself. I have grown sick and tired of it and I have complete sympathy with the comments made by Senator Brian Hayes. On such occasions, RTE should not back down, and I have argued the case with the body before. Not only should it not back down, but if a Minister does not appear, RTE should not feel the need to be devil's advocate on behalf of somebody who refuses to appear. This is constantly happening. It is the duty of the national broadcaster to carry out its purpose. This issue is not as simple as a Minister deciding he will not engage with a member of the Opposition, and it affects all walks of a civil society where Ministers refuse to engage with people who want to take them on. There is a wider issue at stake than what occurred last night.

Senator Mansergh has raised on many occasions the question of freight transport. A recent report by the European group based in Paris which examines rail transport pointed out that the growth in the number of passengers using Irish railways is the fastest in Europe. On the other hand, it indicated that the record in Irish freight transport is appalling, and usage is reducing. We have raised the matter in the Seanad on a number of occasions, and I recall Senator Mansergh discussing in particular the trans-Munster freight line which was mooted for a while before the new bridge was built in Cahir. That is merely a side note.

In the middle of this, Guinness announced yesterday that it would move its transport of beer kegs completely from rail to road. Approximately 1.5 million kegs will be moved from rail to road transport. This is not the transportation of tissue boxes, but heavily-laden trucks careering unnecessarily over roads, causing traffic congestion, great danger and pollution. This also reduces a rail service which is there to be used. It makes no sense whatever.

What is Government policy on the matter? Some 18 months ago, I raised the issue of the reduction in the usage of rail freight services provided by CIE. I wish to know what is happening. Is the reduction coming about because we do not have an easily accessible system of transferring freight from trucks to rail, such as moving containers from one to the other? What is the difficulty? This reflects a problem which can be dealt with. People ask what we are doing about traffic congestion, and this is a classic example of a problem. How many trucks will it take to carry 1.5 million kegs of beer, not only on the main arteries but on every road in Ireland where there are pubs or Guinness depots?

It is a crazy scenario caused by backward thinking, and it is causing great difficulties on the roads. I would like the Minister for Transport to appear in this House so we could explain that it is unacceptable to wind down transport and rail infrastructure when we talk of opening the western corridor and giving more attention to the Rosslare to Limerick line, etc. We should oppose this strongly.