Feargal Quinn (Independent)

The Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Treacy, is welcome to the House. I am particularly glad of his presence, as he listens to debates. I hope to speak in a moderate tone on this issue. I can remember an advertisement which appeared long before the Minister of State's birth. I believe it was for Palmolive soap and its slogan, "what even your best friends are unwilling to tell you", pertained to body odour. While I apologise for bringing the subject up, I do so because I regard myself as a very good friend and admirer of the United States and am particularly conscious of the economic and social ties that bind us so closely together. However, there are times when one is obliged to state that one considers that one's friend may be making a mistake.

As I also noted the last time I spoke on this matter, one does one's friends no service by pretending they have no shortcomings. It is indeed part of the role of a friend to gently point to where a person has gone wrong, if indeed he or she has done so. While one should be loyal to one's friends and give them the benefit of any doubt, this does not mean closing one's eyes to reality. I believe that the concept of "my friend, right or wrong" has no place in friendship.

While in the United States last month, I expressed unease regarding the rumours and suggestions of possible torture in Guantanamo and elsewhere. I was surprised at the reaction of some former senior American administrators, who informed me that such actions did not run counter to their constitution, as it only protected their own citizens. I had never heard such an argument before. It would be useful to have a debate on that subject and the United States should be glad to hear it.

I wish to add my support to this doomed motion and to tell those Members who oppose it that their action is short-sighted and not in the interests of those they seek to protect. As Senator Bradford has spoken well on this subject, I will not repeat it. If democracy means anything at all, it means a readiness to discuss difficult subjects. Hopefully, one discusses them in a reasonable way while basing one's case on genuine evidence. However, a disservice is done to democracy if one attempts to sweep difficult issues under the carpet in its name. I believe this is in danger of happening with regard to this matter. Democracy demands that one is always ready to hear both sides of an argument, however much one might disagree with the other side. Democracy is always ill-served when a majority uses its strengths to stifle debate. The history of Northern Ireland has something to teach us in that respect.

One of the reasons used by Members to justify the Seanad's existence to a highly sceptical outside audience is the promotion of this House as a place where reasoned discussion can take place and where people can come together in a less adversarial way than is usually the case in politics. That is one of the reasons why guillotine motions are so rarely imposed in this House. I believe this greatly enriches our legislative system, given that Committee Stage debates of many Bills in the Dáil are truncated by the use of the guillotine. I would have hoped, therefore, in this safe House that people would have shown themselves big enough to allow the formation of the sub-committee proposed in this motion. The fact that this is not so means that this is a bad day, not just for democracy in general but for the reputation of this House in particular.