John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)

I join previous speakers in welcoming the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Treacy, and his officials to the House. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on this grave topic.

When the Council of Europe reported on alleged secret detentions, it was careful to set out the context of its work at the start. Senator Marty was particularly struck by the fact that it was in the United States that discussions on this topic first really took off. We must recognise that this is not a case of Europe preaching down to the US from the moral high ground, asking them to take heed and open their eyes. I cannot reiterate enough the importance of separating the legitimate concerns of the Irish people about the activities of governments and agencies from tunnel-visioned, irrational, anti-American, ill-founded rants. It does not serve this House, or the interests of the rightly concerned public, if we descend into the latter.

As I said, it was in light of an article in The Washington Post and a report by Human Rights Watch published last November that the international media reported allegations that the CIA is or was running a system of secret prisons, including prisons in certain "central and east European democracies".

The point most specific to our debate today is that aircraft chartered by the CIA allegedly flew over, to and from European territory, benefiting, therefore, from airport facilities including Shannon Airport, to transport suspects, completely illegally, to those secret centres. Senator Marty's report to the Council of Europe is very careful and precise in its use of language, and I encourage all to follow suit.

The Opposition motion refers to "recent reports that US aircraft [are] landing at Irish airports [and] may have been used to transport person to locations where they may be at risk of being subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment". It refers to recent reports and not to evidence. While there have been allegations and reports, there has been no evidence. While I do not suggest that Members suspend their concern or suspicions — I certainly will not — contributions should be made on the basis of what is known. Without entering Donald Rumsfeld's world of "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns", Members should restrict themselves to first discussing what they know and second how best to reveal that which they do not.

The Opposition motion suggests that a select committee of this House, known as the Select Committee on the Use of Irish Airports, and consisting of seven Senators would make a valuable contribution to this second objective. Without creating any possible negative ripples in our important and beneficial relationship with the United States, I am unsure whether anyone can say with certainty that either of these propositions are absolutely true. I can state that the claim in this House on 2 March by Senator Norris that the select committee "on rendition flights through Shannon Airport [was] disestablished by ... the Government ... on the basis there was nothing to examine" is absolutely untrue.

Members will be aware that I worked on drafting the terms of reference for the proposed select committee and was pleased to so do. Hence, I will make my point as clearly as possible. The select committee was not convened because a majority in this House did not support it and not because a majority in this House felt there was nothing to examine. I share the view expressed by the Leader of the House on 1 March "that it was not my wish that [the issue] was ending in this manner". I consider that this House was done a disservice by pursuing a process towards establishing the select committee so far and so publically. However, I am not inclined to undermine this House by proposing defiance of its determination and the will of the majority.

Returning to the substantive issue, namely, the value of another investigation, Members should, as I suggested, consider what is known. Senator Marty's report for the Council of Europe noted that he was informed of the many questions to the Government and the replies received. The Government expressed its total condemnation of the practice of what has been termed "extraordinary renditions" to the investigation and stated that it had never authorised any overflight of Irish territory by chartered aircraft for that purpose. Interestingly, references to Ireland constituted just five lines of his 25 page report.

What else is known? The United States has given Ireland repeated, clear and explicit assurances that no prisoners have been nor would be transferred through Irish territory without Ireland's permission. In December and several other times, the Secretary of State, Dr. Rice, has confirmed these assurances. Ireland was one of only three countries to receive categorical and unqualified assurances on the non-use of its territory for rendition. As far as the Government is concerned, Shannon Airport is not used in any way for extraordinary rendition. The report to the Council of Europe verifies this situation.

The role of the Oireachtas must not be confused with that of the Garda Síochána and the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. Those bodies make the independent determination as to whether there is enough evidence in respect of reports and allegations. Our system of justice and separation of powers is in place for specific and important reasons.

This brings me to third point in the Opposition's motion, namely, the mechanisms to investigate allegations. I understand that the Attorney General has strongly advised the Government that the Garda Síochána has the legal basis to board planes and investigate. Furthermore, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform assured the Oireachtas and the public that the Garda has full power to board civilian chartered aircraft such as those about which many of these allegations have been made. As for the value of any select committee, its objectives and capabilities would be obliged to clearly extend beyond those of both the investigation by Senator Marty and the work undertaken by Mr. Terry Davis. Members must also consider the work of the Oireachtas Joint Committees on European Affairs and Foreign Affairs and any sub-committees envisaged by those bodies.

The Government continues to follow the long-standing practice whereby details supplied by the United States authorities to the Department of Foreign Affairs are accepted in good faith as being accurate. While the Opposition Members will undoubtedly decry this practice, I warn them to be careful as to where their logic might lead them. If Ireland was to take a stance on ceasing any engagement with any entity or operation that in any way facilitates the running of a military operation, it could have serious and unforeseen consequences. Should we ask Intel, Hewlett Packard or Microsoft to cease operation in this country because armies employ their technology, such as microchips, computers and operating systems? Should we ask Pfizer, Abbott, Wyeth and all our pharmaceutical companies——