Noel Coonan (Fine Gael)

I am in favour of a properly-planned decentralisation programme.

Senator Moylan and previous speakers have pointed to difficulties with the programme's progress. I have great respect for Senator Kitt as a level-headed and able politician, like the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon. He informed the House of the difficulties experienced at Ballinasloe with the programme. Mention was made of FÁS in Birr, County Offaly. Another area where problems have emerged is Roscrea, County Tipperary, where the Equality Authority is to be located.

Recently, at a meeting the chief executive officer of the authority said that not one member of its staff had applied for decentralisation to Roscrea. If not one member of the authority's staff has applied for it, how will it function when it locates to there? The Equality Authority's work is specifically orientated. The CEO also outlined that the authority requires specialised legal advice not readily available in Roscrea. Such advice is often limited in the capital and must be brought in from abroad.

I raised the matter with the management of North Tipperary County Council which established a decentralisation committee. It informed me that 57 civil servants from other Departments and agencies had applied to decentralise to Roscrea. Will the Minister of State clarify these matters?

The Minister of State said the figure of 10,600 applications referred to regional centres but not Dublin. Civil servants based in Portlaoise are on to me every day of the week to be transferred to the Garda college in Templemore or Nenagh in County Tipperary within the year. The Minister of State must get his officials to give a clear indication of the number of personnel who want to transfer. He should be open about it. He is committed to the programme and is tenacious about its progress. If anyone can get it going, he will.

When the then Minister for Finance, Charlie McCreevy, announced the programme, he knew in advance where he was headed. He was anxious to win a group one race, so the Minister of State was left at the starting stalls with a mess. The programmes needs to be reconsidered, refocused and reorganised. It is important that we get it right. What good is it to people to have the Equality Authority in Roscrea if it is incapable of functioning? Its CEO claims it is important that the authority is located close to the headquarters of those agencies and organisations who use it most, namely employers, IBEC and the unions. Their headquarters, however, are located in the capital. Although we have unions outside of Dublin, the main headquarters and personnel are not based there. Will the Minister of State address these issues?

The decentralisation programme for towns such as Ballinasloe, Birr and Roscrea is in crisis. A former Minister announced the Garda Síochána Complaints Board was to be located to Roscrea. When I raised it with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Michael McDowell, he informed me Roscrea was not an appropriate location as the board must be at the centre of the action. If he was around Roscrea at the weekends, he would see enough action.

The Government is clearly having difficulties with implementing the decentralisation programme. It will only work when it is properly planned and the unit to be transferred is fully behind it. An example of that is the proposed transfer of the vetting unit of the Garda Síochána to Thurles, County Tipperary. That will work because as one would expect, the Garda authorities will be fully behind a Government decision. A chief superintendent or a higher ranking officer was immediately appointed to oversee decentralisation to Thurles, and it is working well.

I want to bring the Minister of State a little closer to home. The Garda College in Templemore, for example, is being recentralised in that part of it has been moved out of the campus. The authorities are crying out for land to put in place proper training facilities for the students in Templemore. They have told the Office of Public Works, and I have spoken about this matter to the Minister of State, that they require land urgently on which they can develop services and provide further accommodation. That unit has now moved out of Templemore.

There is an unwillingness on the part of the Office of Public Works to spend money to provide them with the facilities. Is that not crazy in this day and age? The Minister of State is shaking his head but that unwillingness exists. There is an unwillingness to give market value for land in Templemore. There was no unwillingness to pay an exorbitant price to purchase a site in Dublin on which to build a new prison. An outlandish price was paid for that site yet the Minister will not give market value for the land in Templemore to ensure the facilities can be located in Templemore instead of recentralising them. The Minister is talking about decentralisation yet an opportunity to do that in Templemore is being passed over. That is an example of where decentralisation can work and I look forward to the Minister's comments on that. If, for example, Dell was coming to Templemore every agency and Government body in the country would be offering all sorts of facilities. They would get grants and so on but the Garda authorities are having to battle with everybody to get what they want to provide the facilities that are urgently needed in Templemore.

I wish the Minister of State well with decentralisation. I am not against it, nor am I against the Minister. I want to see it going well, and the Minister knows that. We want to be positive about this but there are issues that must be addressed and we must come clean with the public as to where they stand. I ask the Minister to deal with the Equality Authority, the Garda inspectorate that was promised for Roscrea and the Garda College issue. I ask him to ask his officials, when they engage with the county council, the public or public representatives, to give a clear and accurate picture of what is happening and not give massaged or inaccurate figures that do not reflect the true position. That is what is annoying people the most about decentralisation.

I hope this process works out but I believe it will take another Government to ensure it does. The Minister of State may well be part of that. I am not being negative in any way but it will not happen in the lifetime of this Government. It will take another Government to get it right, which is essential both for Dublin and the provincial towns where decentralisation will take place. We must get this process right if the services are to be delivered to the people.