Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

An opinion poll in The Irish Times showed that two thirds of people were in favour of decentralisation, in spite of the all the negative media coverage. The country has developed in a very lop-sided fashion. The announcements on decentralisation have acted as a tremendous catalyst for development and growth. For example, the people of Tipperary town have not looked back since the decentralisation announcement was made. There is, as the Minister said, a small advance party which was not even part of the original decentralisation programme, namely, the 11 staff working in the Private Security Authority, in Tipperary town. They are working in temporary accommodation while permanent accommodation in an old barracks is being prepared.

I strongly welcome the fact that the decentralisation of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to Tipperary town has moved up the list. It involves 186 posts in the Department. In December we were given an indicative date for construction to start in early 2007. A site has been acquired, although the legal formalities have still to be finalised, and the indicative date for construction completion is the end of 2008. Perhaps the Minister of State will confirm if that remains the situation. I understand that the decentralisation to other towns in Tipperary, mainly in north Tipperary, is proceeding well. The original decentralisation was the Garda College in Templemore and with the expansion of the Garda force I am sure employment there will grow by leaps and bounds.

There is agreement across the floor that the Teagasc move to Carlow, which preceded the decentralisation programme, happened smoothly and without too many industrial relations problems. The problems that did arise were solved. The success of decentralisation partly depends on the terms and conditions on offer, particularly when there is a certain reluctance to move. Some flexibility and pragmatism are required to make it a success.

Recently I read a memoir by a doctor — the book could almost be in the category of religious literature — who was born in the South and lives in the North. He spent some time in Brazil. He says in the book, which was published only a few weeks ago, that if we think there are problems with decentralisation here, consider Brazil where Government departments had to move hundreds of miles inland from Rio de Janeiro to Brasilia.

Similarly, in Germany a large number of departments had to move from Bonn to Berlin some years after reunification. In France, the elite civil service training college, ENA, was shifted from Paris to Strasbourg, somewhat to the displeasure of some of the staff. A year or two ago, Mr. Gordon Brown, Chancellor of the Exchequer in Britain, announced a wholesale decentralisation programme which was not on a voluntary basis. If people did not move, that was tough for them. That is not our ethos and I do not recommend it.

However, Ireland is a reasonably compact country. People have referred to very experienced civil servants who are deeply committed to their Department. In those cases, if they believe in the value of what they are doing, they should seriously consider ways and means whereby they can work in the new location. People ought to be more open to the idea. I have difficulty understanding the development co-operation division of the Department of Foreign Affairs. People who work in that division have to be prepared to be posted to Lusaka, Lesotho, Timor-Leste or other such places but the barbaric jungle of Limerick appears to be a bridge too far.

Communications are good in this country and are getting better. People have all sorts of flexible working relationships. There is no reason decentralisation should not work. It is in the interests of the country. People should try not to be too political about it. I plead with the Opposition to be a little more positive about the programme and to see the glass as half full instead of half empty. I also plead with the media to cease its gross propagandistic distortions of what is happening, which is purely pandering to a comfortable Dublin audience.