David Norris (Independent)

I am pleased to hear that and apologise for not having seen it. What blindness on my part. The Minister will have to excuse me because I have a cold. I congratulate him and warmly welcome the very important change in the Bill. Not making such provision ends in absurdity. I heartily approve of it because it will speed up projects such as the metro.

The Minister also intends to include gas pipelines. I hope the experience regarding the Corrib gas pipeline will be taken into account. It is in such areas that maximum public participation is important.

My colleague Senator MacSharry referred to a lack of clarity regarding whether people are interested in environmental conservation or anti-globalisation. I do not see any problem with being interested in both. There are many sinister aspects to globalisation and we are right to question it, specifically where it has an environmental impact and when one is dealing with very unsavoury groups such as Shell. These are dangerous, ruthless people and we should be very careful about the way in which we engage with them.

I am glad the provisions do not cover developments such as office blocks and these kinds of speculative areas — it is good they are exempted. However, I do not join in the paean of praise for the local councillors. I have always treated my electorate with a certain degree of detachment and have said whatever the hell I felt like saying. If my electors were councillors, I would say the same thing. Let us bear in mind the history of the past few years, in which we have witnessed the most appalling behaviour and corruption on the part of councillors in Dublin. They were selling out their country and selling planning permission. It has been a stinking shame and we should be careful about accepting their advice on planning matters, in which they have shown themselves to be corrupt. Like the Minister, I travel around the country and while doing so people often tell me abuses of the system have not only occurred in Dublin. I am told the sums involved may not be as big as in Dublin but that corruption has occurred. We should therefore by very chary.

I do not agree with Senator MacSharry regarding his worry about county managers collecting councillors' views and delivering them to the board. I would not like to have private access for councillors who have, generally speaking, shown themselves to be unworthy. Let them prove their track record again.