Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)

Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire inniú. I welcome the Minister to the House. I was unsure whether I was listening to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform or the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources because there were many references to law and reform in the Minister's contribution.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on the Sea-Fisheries and Maritime Jurisdiction Bill. Having listened intently to the debate in the Lower House I do not intend to cover issues which have been extensively debated by my Dáil colleagues. I wish to make some observations and ask the Minister to clarify some points. I was amused to hear the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, the Minister's party colleague, Deputy O'Flynn, refer to this Bill as a "Civil Service Bill from Fisheries Lane". While he paints an amusing picture, it gives rise to serious concerns regarding the drafting of this Bill. Consultation with those most affected by the Bill was not an issue during its drafting.

Coming from County Donegal, I fully appreciate and understand the critical role which fishing plays in coastal communities. Large areas of County Donegal would cease to exist if it were not for the fishing industry — I refer specifically to Greencastle and Killybegs. It is known only too well in County Donegal that viable alternative employment opportunities are decreasing by the year. In the opinion of a large number of my constituents, this Government appears to have written off the fishing industry. Some fishermen in County Donegal have referred to the Department as being the Department against the marine rather than the Department with responsibility for the marine. This does not reflect well on the Department but it is the Minister who must take responsibility for his Department and its civil servants.

We have witnessed the debacle of the pelagic weighing regulations in Killybegs in the past 18 months. It seems that interpretation of EU regulations by Irish administration has cost that town hundreds of processing jobs. This Bill is similar to the weighing regulations fiasco in that there has been reference to European regulations and misinterpretation of the same. This is a domestic issue and we cannot point the finger of blame at anyone else.

The crux of this debate has been whether minor offences should be dealt with by administrative penalties. This is when the issue of interpretation raises its head. A total of 86% of European offences are dealt with by administrative sanctions. The EU fisheries Commissioner, Joe Borg, has stated he would prefer administrative sanctions. The most recent report from Brussels on the serious breaches of the Common Fisheries Policy indicates over 9,000 serious offences committed across Europe in 2003. Those figures suggest a major problem across the EU in conforming with all the regulations as set out in the Common Fisheries Policy. The number of offences committed in Ireland was 100, a little over 1% of the European total. This is noteworthy considering the recent press coverage of the industry. These figures are indicative of what I know from personal dealings with fishermen, that our industry is no better or no worse than any other in Europe.

In the European context which is how this problem should be regarded, the question remains why fishermen are being criminalised for minor offences. These fishermen are dealing with thousands of pages of EU legislation on each fishing trip. I acknowledge that mistakes are made and deliberate mistakes must be punished. I reiterate the Fine Gael position in this matter as articulated by my colleague and party spokesman, Deputy Perry. Fine Gael does not condone over-fishing and it agrees that serious offences must attract serious penalties. There is a need to take a common sense approach but it is unfortunate that common sense has been lacking in this debate. Despite the fact that only 1% of EU fishing offences are committed by Irish fishermen, it seems now that Ireland will be the only country in Europe not to administer fixed penalties or administrative sanctions. I fail to see the logic behind this position in particular, for minor offences and valuable court resources could be saved by a reduction in the number of fisheries cases ending up in court.

As on previous occasions the Minister remains determined to continue regardless of what everybody else thinks. If newspaper reports are to be believed, up to 15 of his party colleagues made a desperate last minute plea to have him change his mind but this was to no avail. The Chairman of the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy O'Flynn, and his colleague, Deputy O'Donovan, were eventually begging the Minister to change his mind. I wonder how much of their concern was for the fishing industry or whether they had one eye on the election. The reaction from coastal communities around the country at the next election will be very interesting.

This Bill is being pursued by the Minister in the name of conservation of fishing stocks. I have been informed by fishermen that there has been a fleet of ten foreign freezer trawlers catching up to 1,000 tonnes of mackerel per day off the Irish coast in recent weeks. I have also been informed that these vessels are discarding the same quantity of smaller grades of mackerel. These allegations merit a major investigation but I question whether such efforts are reserved for Irish owners. I have no problem with control and enforcement in order to protect our fishing stocks but I have a problem if that level of control is not afforded to everyone in our waters. I am informed that Irish fishermen witnessed up to six or seven Norwegian boats in Irish waters when Irish men were being told they were no longer allowed to fish in those grounds.

The submission to the joint committee by the Naval Service was very telling. Ireland is clueless as to the bottom line for quota restrictions pertaining to foreign vessels operating in our waters. We are also clueless as to the effort levels of these foreign fleets. This is proved when the EU Commission has initiated proceedings against the Minister's Department for failure to submit the required effort data. When my colleague, Deputy Perry, recently queried the former Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, on his knowledge of the effort levels of foreign fleets, the response was far from reassuring.

It is an outrage. Ireland has the most productive fishing grounds in Europe. As I stated yesterday in my contribution to the debate on drugs, I have been informed by a certain person that more drugs than fish are coming through our harbours. The Minister will quote statistics from the Naval Service regarding the boarding of foreign vessels but I am informed that these freezer ships receive nothing more than courtesy calls from our control resources. Recently quoted figures put the value of catch for Irish fishermen at €200 million and the value of catch by foreign vessels in Irish waters as €2 billion. I shudder to think what is the value of the illegal catch taken by foreign trawlers, given the quality rather than the quantity of the boardings.

A true assessment of the situation in Irish waters is required, to enable us know who is catching fish, what they are catching and what are they allowed to catch, which is more important. This assessment should be carried out and we will discover who are the main players in this fishing business. It may be as the Minister suggests that there is a small group of Irish fishermen but there is a larger group of foreign fishermen. The fishing industry must not be sacrificed because Irish fishermen are visible while foreign vessels continue to rape our waters with no control imposed.

The one positive element derived from this debate is that many more people now realise that fishing is a very valuable industry for coastal communities. These communities face harsh challenges and they need our help and political support. However the Minister and the Government have failed to provide that support. Fine Gael when in power will provide that support and is committed to having a full Department of the Marine.

Given the very public debate that has raged, it is amazing there was no consultation with the stakeholders prior to the drafting of the legislation. Lessons can be learned and if we are to introduce laws that will impact on people's livelihoods we must take their views on board. How more serious an impact could legislation have than making a criminal out of someone? I find it particularly troubling that nobody saw fit to discuss this Bill with the fishermen before it was drafted. It could have saved everyone a huge amount of energy and resources. It is no wonder there were 220 amendments to the original Bill, over 100 of which were tabled by the Minister.

For future reference let us take a leaf out of the United Kingdom's book. The British authorities are also examining the possibility of modernising their fisheries legislation. The relevant UK Minister has launched a consultation process which is open to all stakeholders and which will result in the drawing up of a list of offences to be covered by administrative sanctions. I would welcome a response from the Minister, particularly on the perceived scale of fishing activities by foreign vessels off our coasts.

There is a perception among our fishermen, their families and fishing communities generally, that the Department is not working for them. They feel it is intent on working against them by introducing restrictive regulations that will forcibly drive them out of the industry. There is a feeling of fear among our fishing communities. As a Donegal man from the coast I am only too aware of what is going on in Greencastle and Killybegs, including hard work, personal investment and large mortgages fishermen have taken out to upgrade their vessels. In addition, they received grants from Europe and from An Bord Iascaigh Mhara only to be told that tonnage quota reductions were to be introduced down the line.

Fishermen put together comprehensive business plans, forecasting how much fish they would be taking in, to show the banks they could repay mortgages on boats. Some fishermen are currently not in a position to pay back their mortgages. One fisherman told me yesterday that his blue whiting quota will only extend to four months this year. This is a complete anomaly because the same fisherman is watching Norwegian vessels passing every day with fewer restrictions and, consequently, larger quotas than their Irish counterparts. The same can be said for many UK fishermen who have bigger quotas.

One of the main points of contention fishermen have regarding this legislation is that their fishing gear can be confiscated for small offences. This ridiculous situation is equivalent to drivers having their cars confiscated if they travel at 85 km/h in an 80 km/h zone. That is the case in the fishing industry where minor infringements will be punished by confiscating fishermen's gear. It is not good enough. The Minister is not in tune with fishermen who work day and night at sea trying to earn a crust, while the Department does nothing to ease the hardships they must endure.

As a member of the Opposition, maybe I am missing something and have got it all wrong. Perhaps my hearing is impaired but those are the arguments I have heard from members of the fishing industry. They say that interaction between the Department and fishermen is poor and communication is non-existent. That serious problem needs to be addressed. If one positive thing has emerged from this debate it is that fishermen are willing to stay in the industry but they need support, assistance and encouragement in order to do so. That is the cry from fishermen and their families in coastal communities.

Just before leaving his previous portfolio, the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, announced a massive injection of money for infrastructural improvement at Greencastle pier, which is to be welcomed. Is it not anomalous, however, to invest in such infrastructure when ultimately we will not have the boats to land fish stocks? It does not make sense to impose further fishing restrictions when fishermen have millstones around their necks having invested in upgrading their vessels and the State is investing in infrastructural projects along the coastline. That is the crux of this debate.

I know I have digressed somewhat from the main picture but the Bill does not amount to good regulation of the fishing industry. I will continue to voice my concerns and opposition to the ethos of criminalising fishermen who are trying to earn a living for their families and their communities. The legislation is a contradiction in terms when it comes to planning the future of the industry.

Three weeks ago, every local newspaper in Donegal was carrying an average of 20 reports on criminal activity in the county, including burglaries and shootings. A range of such activities is occurring in the county but all this Government is concerned about is criminalising fishermen who want to earn money and reinvest it in order to keep coastal communities alive.

As the Minister is aware, Donegal is different. We came up with the tourism logo "It's different up here". It is different in terms of infrastructural deficits, labour market anomalies and the lack of jobs. The only thing that is keeping us alive in Donegal is the construction industry. The Minister referred to sustainability but everyone in Donegal knows that the construction industry is not sustainable in the long run. We are seeking alternatives, one of which is on our doorstep and staring us in the face — it is the fishing industry. The Minister does not come from a coastal community and, being a Meath man, he may not be able to empathise with such communities, although I mean no disrespect to Meath people. The Minister should commence a proactive, open line of communication with fishermen from Castletownbere to Greencastle.