Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

I agree with the cogent points made by Senator Henry. Whether they are dealt with in this legislation or otherwise they are well worthy of the Minister's attention.

I welcome the Minister to the House. I also welcome the legislation before us. I am not a great expert in the fields of justice and security but I wish to express my political support for the importance of the fight against crime, including terrorism, as well as improving the security of our people and our country. In the modern world one is dealing with extraordinarily sophisticated communications, financial networks and ease of transport from one jurisdiction to another. If crime is becoming globalised, therefore, one must also globalise the means of fighting it. That is easier to do when countries share the same democratic values. There are safeguards against the abuse of power in the legislation but, by and large, we are dealing with countries in the European Union that share our values.

Having read the legislation, it seems that quite a lot of it will, in practice, concern Irish citizens wanted for criminal offences who have fled the country to reside abroad. We should not tolerate what the tabloids used to call the "costa del crime". Wherever people hide they should be extraditable and their assets should be retrievable.

In this sort of debate much time used to be taken up by the finer concerns of civil liberties. It is not that I regard civil liberties as unimportant but the right approach is to address clear abuses when they occur — hopefully they will be few and far between in this jurisdiction — rather than pulling one's punches legislatively because of remote and theoretical fears.

I was struck by what my colleague, Senator Kett, said about the association of poverty and crime. I have always been intrigued by the fact that when there was a huge amount of absolute poverty — not just relative poverty — in this country in the late 1950s and early 1960s, it was historically the time when crime levels were at their lowest. I am afraid that crime is also related to opportunities to make wealth illicitly. Undoubtedly, in a society such as ours, there are infinitely more opportunities today to make illicit wealth than perhaps was the case 40 years ago.

Democratic governments must not allow small organisations, bands or gangs to usurp their authority. There is quite a lot of that going on. One can argue the merits or demerits of the authorities allowing a parade last Saturday but the duly constituted, democratic and lawful authorities decided to permit it. It was not for anybody else to decide that it should not take place. In the world of crime and paramilitaries there are people who see themselves as some kind of shadowy parallel authority which, in some instances, decides what is legal or illegal. They do so not according to international or Irish law but merely according to their own imaginary doctrines. I know the Minister does not need much urging in this regard but it is important to uphold firmly the values of democracy and the rule of law vis-À-vis anyone who would challenge them.