John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)

I welcome the Minister and the introduction of this comprehensive legislation. We have had a flavour of Gaeilge sa Teach. Senator O'Toole started during the Order of Business highlighting Irish. Then the Minister took us all on the hop by delivering an eloquent speech as Gaeilge which I regret to say I had to read in English.

The war on terrorism is one which cannot succeed if we deal with it purely in military terms. It is a war in which everyone must partake. It will involve business communities, economists, sovereign states and mutual co-operation because terrorism is now an international norm. People who have concerns for their own ideological reasons set about attempting to achieve their objectives by the commission of terrorism. Terrorism dates back to biblical times. We now have a situation where there is mutual co-operation. Terrorists trade with each other and their commodity is terror. We must combat this threat.

Events occur such as those of 11 September in respect to which there is a huge international response. Everybody pulls together and wants immediate action because the international media can now bring terror to everyone's home. It is not only those who were in New York on 11 September but those who watched the tragic scenes on television were terrorised, albeit to a different extent. Modern communications, TV networks, etc., have in a way become a tool of terror. In any war one of the main military components is winning the hearts and minds of the people and using the media to get one's message across. Equally, terrorism has that vehicle available to it now.

In the response to the events of 11 September, everybody in the western world came together to stamp down this terrorism and an aggressive feeling to the effect that "we will deal with it" was evident. However, as people begin to feel more secure as time moves on they question that original commitment. Have they the stomach to be willing to set aside conventions by which we have lived for many years?

Terrorists comprise not a fixed but a movable target and we must learn how to deal with them. One of the ways we must change the way we live is by extending this mutual co-operation between states in order to counteract terrorists' mutual co-operation. The terrorist we see, be it a suicide bomber or whoever, is but the point in the arrowhead, but we must target the people behind the terrorist, those who pull the strings and the greedy business people who have no ideology except to make money who will furnish, support and provide the back-up for their own selfish gains. There are also the ideologues who will be the string pullers. On a smaller scale, in Dublin last week people behind the scenes were controlling and operating events on mobile phones and stirring up young people into trouble; the same happens with terrorists. The Bill will enable this country to play its part on the international stage in co-operating efforts to target the behind the scenes network that provides the mutual co-operation between terrorist organisations worldwide.

The Minister announced the publication of the Bill in 2005. It builds on an existing legislative framework for mutual legal assistance. It provides for the effective co-operation between member states of the European Union and between states worldwide. This is of increasing importance in recent times. It enhances and supplements the existing international co-operation in the fight against terrorism and organised crime. It is not only terrorists but criminal gangs are equally co-operating with each other. The public face of terrorism is the car bombs and the terrorist atrocities we see but it is the faceless network that this legislation sets about addressing.

The Bill will help to further facilitate the detection and prosecution of those responsible for transnational crime. Technology is used in the transfer of funds, in the way organisations do business and in the hiding of moneys. Terrorism is a costly business and must be funded. We must play our part in providing the necessary framework to try to break that chain. Without it and without supply we help in combating the delivery of the terrorist act. We have had our own painful experiences of terrorism and we must live in the aftermath of that and do all we can to stamp it out. This Bill is crucial in building a safer society for everyone not only in Ireland but worldwide.

I am glad the Minister has taken consideration of the views of the Human Rights Commission in finalising the provisions of the Bill. It will always be the case that civil liberty groups will question issues in a Bill such as this but unfortunately, that is the price we pay for the terrorist world in which we now live. We must respond to that threat in a responsible manner. Questions will be asked and the concerns are welcome, and should be listened to and addressed because we must draw a line in terms of what is acceptable to protect the freedoms we have but equally to provide a safe and secure society for the people who live with those freedoms.

Ireland has a good record generally when it comes to protecting the rights of individuals, even during times of trouble, but when difficult decisions had to be made, they were made. We made them in dealing with our own terrorist activities. We are now playing our part in delivering similar hard decisions on the international stage.

Rather than diluting our established norms, we in Ireland should advocate that other countries do the same. We have a distinct voice in the world and can take a position of leadership in areas such as human rights, development aid, conflict resolution and peacekeeping. Ireland has played a huge part in that. We can provide leadership on the world stage in how we have addressed our problems.

Even though we talk about neutrality and it is an issue that raises its head every so often in debates in this House, when it comes to international terrorism and criminality no one can be neutral. That transcends beyond anything to do with sovereign neutrality. We have a responsible role to play.

Under this legislation we will play our part in the global war against terrorism. We see the face of it with decisions such as those relating to Guantanamo Bay and other decisions that are regularly discussed in this House. I welcome the call by the Minister for Foreign Affairs in that regard.

However, we must also remember that this is evidence of the feel-safe factor having crept in again. Initially there were no questions about Guantanamo Bay, but as people begin to feel safe the pressure increases on those who have to make the decisions to root out these networks. They are pressurised not to bring in certain rules, laws and other legislative measures.

This legislation is necessary and should be welcomed by all. We are playing our part on the international stage by introducing it. Mutual co-operation between terrorist groups using modern technology and business activities to fund their evil commodity of terror for their own selfish gains must be matched by equally co-operative legislative work, which is what we are doing here. I welcome this legislation and thank the Minister for bringing it forward.