Joe O'Toole (Independent)

There is one simple answer — one sacks a teacher as one sacks anybody else. If teachers do not do their work they can be put out the door following due process. That is the end of that discussion. The Teaching Council will withdraw recognition, where required, in a proper and balanced way. I have not the slightest doubt that the members of the council will do their job professionally, responsibly and equitably and that there will be full accountability. This council represents a very important step in terms of what we should be seeking for the future.

The council has 37 members. We have spoken about their commitment and, in this regard, they are meeting every six weeks. They are trying to reach out to the communities in which they meet, outlining their role and plans and inviting questions. The president of the council, Joan Ward, a former colleague of mine, and the director, Áine Lawlor, are people of quality. I do not know all the members on the council but know many of them, some of whom are past presidents of the INTO, the ASTI and the TUI. The members are all committed to getting the arrangement right and know that when they are negotiating teachers' salaries, they will be able to say teachers deserve more money, better rewards and greater appreciation because they do as good, if not a better, job than members of the teaching profession anywhere else in the world. We can match them anywhere.

It is very often forgotten that in terms of the selection process and staff numbers, there is a greater intellectual investment in the teaching profession than in any other profession of which I know. I do not want to sound superior in saying this. Using a crude measure, a significant part of the national intelligence is invested in the teaching profession. It is right that this be the case and that it be recognised. Given this intellectual investment, it is also right that we make demands of our teachers, and that is why we can do what we are doing today with confidence. We are considering setting up new educational structures for people who are dealing with extraordinary societal change, as politicians know better than most. Society has been turned over in the past ten years and teachers are dealing with the consequent difficulties every day as they arise in the classroom. They have to deal with the increased levels of violence and crime in the community about which politicians hear in clinics and by telephone. They have to cope with problems which result from drug use, abuse and misuse. Every problem that is found in the community arrives in the classroom on Monday mornings. The Minister for Education and Science made that point to me when I was talking to her last week about her visit to a school in a disadvantaged area. She told me that a child approached her as she was leaving, at the end of a lovely day of presentations, etc., and asked to be allowed to sleep in the school that night. We should think about what prompts a child to ask such a question. We can be proud of the manner in which teachers are dealing with such issues on a daily basis. We know about the changes in family structures they are dealing with — perhaps we helped to bring such changes about. There has been a movement away from the extended old-fashioned family structures we were used to. Parents are now involved in different kinds of relationships. They might be involved in second relationships following divorces or separations, for example. Children might have to live in different homes because their parents are living apart.

Not only are teachers trying to come to terms with such changes in society, but they are also moving forward in other ways, for example by introducing the changes in the new curriculum. I would like to mention a third result of benchmarking, which is evident when the Minister for Education and Science attends EU ministerial meetings. Ireland is the only country in western Europe to have introduced a new curriculum on two occasions without any problems. I accept that hard negotiations were necessary, but the process was completed without any strikes, industrial action or withdrawal of support. Demands were made and all sorts of conditions were attached — I make no excuses for that because teachers are entitled to put safeguards in place — but the new curriculum was successfully implemented. When I spoke to a French education Minister two years ago, he said that he wished a similar deal could have been reached in France. He could not understand how teachers, parents, the Department, the inspectorate and groups like IBEC and ICTU were able to negotiate the new curriculum in a spirit of co-operation and in the best interests of children. Given that new curriculums in other countries are written in offices and imposed on the teaching profession, is it any wonder that rows take place? The successful operation of the Teaching Council is part of the great deal we have gained from the partnership process.

I am leading up to the major point I would like to make about the Teaching Council. Demands are being made of the Minister of State and his officials. My colleagues on all sides of the House recognise that the Teaching Council will be a successful body. As politicians, the Minister of State and I are aware that when such bodies are doing really well, politicians bask in the reflected glory as part of the establishment that put them in place. Such bodies are suddenly on their own, however, when they have to take difficult decisions and make hard choices — when they have to recommend things that people in their professions will not applaud. Can the Minister of State press a button in the Department of Education and Science to ensure that the Teaching Council will be allowed to act as an independent body? We should invest our trust in the council by allowing it to do as it sees fit. I accept that over-arching controls should be in place, but there is no need for the council to have to seek the approval of the Minister at every hand's turn, as it has to do at present.