David Norris (Independent)

I thank my colleague, Senator Quinn, for giving me a few minutes of his time. I agree with his statements, which related principally to the general question of third level funding. He invoked the name of the late Cardinal Newman and his idea of a university. I will consider a more specific point, namely, the impact of the Fottrell report.

I am glad the Minister has seen fit to implement most of the proposals contained in the Fottrell report. I heard Professor Fottrell on the radio not long ago welcoming this himself. My colleague Senator Henry and I, on advice from constituents in the University of Dublin, have raised a serious question. It is absurd that we are training in our schools more medical students from abroad than Irish medical students. In fact we were allowing foreign students to enter medical schools with lower points, which meant that Irish students who ought to have qualified for places were disadvantaged at a time when there was an insufficient supply of doctors to service the needs of the community. That was an absurd situation and I am glad the Minister has started to address it.

The intake of students is to more than double from 305 to 725, which is welcome. The increase received a strong welcome from distinguished medical correspondents, including Dr. Muiris Houston of The Irish Times, who had previously asked how the €200 million would be spent to address the medical manpower needs in our society. The Fottrell report estimated that we needed between 700 and 740 students. The Minister has set a target in the middle of that range so she is doing exactly what was suggested.

The starkness of the situation is illustrated by the chairman of the Irish College of General Practitioners, to whom I always listen because the public generally encounters the medical profession at GP level, which is the bedrock of the medical service. He estimates that we need to produce at least one GP every fortnight, which is a large number. He also points out that approximately one third of current GPs will retire in the next 15 years so we will need to produce at least 150 family doctors each year. It was an urgent situation but has been largely addressed and I look forward to seeing the implementation of this report.

Before I proceed to the significant question of postgraduate work in medicine, I will deal with the proposal to introduce aptitude tests within the next two years. I would like more information but I am attracted to the idea because the personality of a doctor is very important. It is not quite as important for a surgeon because patients have usually been knocked out by the time they get to that stage but if a person is sick, depressed, distressed or abashed, a good manner is very important.

This has been addressed in various ways. In the old days being a doctor was almost a family profession, passed on from one generation to the next, and there were good arguments for that because a child will pick up the bones of a trade from parents. The Minister of State is nodding and smiling and he should know what I mean because his family has made a fine contribution to politics and continues to do so.

Universities usually noted family connections and maybe required an interview. We are such a small society and given to gombeenery, if I may use a word that caused such distress in the House earlier, which means that there is often a problem if people are perceived as gaining an advantage from their family connections but that is wrong. To create a rigid, arithmetical meritocracy would also be wrong. In principle, I am attracted to the idea of an aptitude test but such tests can be risky. I have undertaken two intelligence tests. In the first I "out-Einsteined" Einstein but in the second I should have been closeted in a padded cell.