Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Let both sides have their say. Given that there is such heat on the issue, it should be allowed to go forward for discussion.

Following the points raised here this morning about the nursing home issue, we need a debate on it. I do not know where we are going on this matter. On numerous occasions I have asked that this not be turned into a political football. Every party has been involved in this at some stage, including Independents. We all have dirt on our hands on this one.

As far as where we are now is concerned, I am appalled at some of the stuff I am hearing here this morning. I do not understand what Senator Finucane stated. First, there are many more than 20,000 people concerned; it is more like 70,000. Second, perhaps Senator Finucane can explain the idea and we should discuss it. If the policy is that we pay exemplary and other damages and that we ask civil servants to pay out this money without it being challenged, the idea is an absolute abuse——