Maurice Hayes (Independent)

While I am grateful to Senator Mansergh for sharing his time with me, I regret that he should have to do so, because the House could benefit from his wisdom and experience in this subject.

It is a pity that bodies which were set up to provide clarity in these matters should have produced confusion. I regret that the IMC and IICD are drawing from the same intelligence pool and producing what appear to be different conclusions. I live in the North and, as the Minister said, the place is transformed and the quality of life is better. We are in danger of asking people to prove negatives, particularly Sinn Féin, which needs to build up confidence. It could do so by being involved in policing. It is an interesting mirror image of its attitude to policing when it says it will join when the whole thing is ideal, and the DUP says it will talk to Sinn Féin when it reaches the absolute state of grace. Before going into policing, Sinn Féin would need to be sure that the DUP would not use it as an excuse to walk out. Policing is key to the process.

Criminality, which is taking place, is a problem. The question is whether it is the criminality of individuals or directed by a central intelligence. I think criminality is endemic and we have always had smuggling. The problem is deciding whether people are paramilitaries moonlighting as smugglers or smugglers moonlighting as paramilitaries. In these circumstances, people should accept that the important issue is to see that politics is working. Given that people persuaded paramilitary organisations to give up the guns — the IMC said it is satisfied that the strategic intention is to move in that direction — it is important that this is not made more difficult.

I would be surprised if there is much progress before the end of the year. It is a tough old slog. I am not tremendously bothered about the DUP proposal for a two-tier process which would include dangers. A two-tier process will not be acceptable. It appears to me from the DUP's stand that if trust, even minimal trust, could be established, these matters could be telescoped, and the more quickly this is done the better. If I were the Minister, I do not think I would die in the ditch for the d'Hondt principle. As Senator Brian Hayes said, it is the prospect of having nine separate ministries with no collective responsibility.

I am happy that these generous remarks were made about the Taoiseach and his contribution, which are totally deserved. I wish the Minister well.