Michael Brennan (Progressive Democrats)

I will not detain the Senators for too long. I thank Senators for responding to my request for a constructive debate and I value being in Seanad Éireann to listen to the discussions. I formed the view when I started this job that if I wanted experts in social welfare I needed not look much further than Members of Dáil Éireann, Seanad Éireann and councillors, because public representatives have a special knowledge of this area. With all due respect to my experts and my own experience the amount of expertise they offer is staggering.

The budget the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, and I announced last week reflects what was said in this House. During last year's debates here, in the Dáil and in meetings of my parliamentary party I took copious notes. I read them this morning and found that we managed to include in the budget not all but most of what was raised. It is a cheap source of advice for me and I wish to acknowledge it because I take Senators' contributions seriously. There are many research and study groups which are valuable and bring a professional overlay to the process but I enjoy hearing Senators and Deputies raise individual cases from their clinics from which I can extrapolate a policy position.

Senator Terry asked about the percentage of GDP we spend on social services. I will not go into detail now but there are half a dozen reasons the gap between Ireland and the higher spenders is more apparent than real, when a number of factors are taken into account. We spend a third of all taxpayers' funds on just one Department, my own. If the spend on the Departments of Health and Children and Education and Science is included the total is 90% on just three Departments. We keep approximately 10% for everything else so anybody who says this country does not invest in social services is wrong. That money comes from the taxpayer. I have never regarded it as Government money, party money or the Cabinet's money so the taxpayer has made a significant investment in this area.

Senator Terry also spoke about high relative poverty. I will not start a debate now but I am unimpressed by that measure. The finding that 20% of Irish people are in poverty is not reality. The consistent poverty measure, which is approximately 6.8%, is much more sensible. We need to be careful about somewhat academic measures of poverty, some of which are from the EU. They are valuable as a contribution to the discussion but I must focus resources on 5% or 6% of people, not 20%.

The Senator also referred to questions submitted to my Department but not dealt with. I will examine that because it should not be the case. She and Senator Henry, among others, complimented our officials for being more than helpful and supportive, which has always been the approach. All officials approach every case on the basis of trying to find a solution to a problem rather than bureaucratically saying something is not possible, as may have been the case some years ago. I will take the cases up if she gives me more information on them.

Senator Terry also asked about qualified adult allowances being paid directly and expressed disappointment it was not in the budget. I deal with structural and financial issues in the budget so it does not have to be included. I am reviewing the situation and have had a number of meetings with the Department, from which a number of issues arose. For example, it would mean paying 70% of an allowance directly to the woman. It is voluntary at the moment and is available if people want to take it up but very few have done so. There may be different reasons for it but there is a good case for mandatorily paying it separately, which I will pursue once the budget and the social welfare Bills are completed.

The Senator also called for a greater take-up of family income supplement, FIS, and she is right. The take-up last year was disappointing and a major campaign is planned to improve it. We have changed its criteria this year to benefit larger families, which will make a huge difference. A family with two children can receive up to €3,900. A family with two children under six and earnings of €20,000 would get a further €3,900, bringing their total child support to €9,500, which is significant and well-targeted. She also raised the question of carers, which I acknowledge.

I do not want to go through what all the Senators mentioned but will reply to those still in the House. Senator Kate Walsh also talked about carers. The Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children and I have been working hard on the care for the elderly package. We discussed the Mercer report and we will discuss further changes in Cabinet in January. The Tánaiste introduced an excellent €150 million package recently and we discussed on many occasions how the support for carers from my Department can be co-ordinated with support for the elderly from hers, to produce joined-up thinking. It is critical we work together.

Senator Lydon also mentioned the elderly and complimented the Society of St. Vincent de Paul. I learn a lot from organisations like that. They knock on as many as 800,000 or 900,000 doors every year and when they tell me about problems that exist I must listen. I echo the Senator's compliments to that and similar organisations.

The budget makes good structural reforms for the benefit of the elderly. Senator Mansergh made a particularly relevant point and I wanted to make sure that when people reach 66 and qualify for a pension they should not be suddenly told they cannot work any more. Accordingly, I have introduced a large disregard which effectively allows them to take up employment, perhaps on a part-time basis, because it is daft to tell people over 66 years old they must stay at home on a pension or have the pension taken away from them if they earn more than €7. That is not good social policy.

I have listened carefully to what Senators have said. I am particularly excited about this budget and the changes in it, not so much with regard to the €800 million for improving the cashflow of so many people, valuable as that is, as the €300 million which has gone into structural reforms and activation to move people from welfare dependency to financial independence. It liberates lone parents to earn more money before we touch their income. It also allows pensioners earn more money before we touch their income, lets carers earn more money and makes the carer's payment the highest in the land. Those are the sorts of matters we are activating and the structural reforms we are creating. Similarly, we are allowing people to hold on to the disability allowance while being retrained and perhaps receiving additional education, and finding new ways of earning some funds.

I am particularly excited about one aspect, on which most Senators commented. For that I thank them. At the core of this budget is something I have been working on all year, namely, getting behind the payments to tackle the social issue beyond them. It is not just a question of making the payment. We will make it, but more importantly we deal with the issue behind it. We move people to better places so that welfare is an active rather than a passive mechanism, locking people in poverty traps. I am thrilled that we have managed to get that philosophy into the heart of this social welfare budget and I thank all sides of the House for that.

I have learned so much from listening to so many people on all sides of the House, and in the Dáil, in the past year. The budget was nearly written for me when I looked through the notes I had taken from the debates. I thank the Senators and commend the Bill to the House.