Mary White (Fianna Fail)

Listening to the debate, I begin to think I am surrounded by Luddites talking about negative aspects of shopping centres. There were predictions that all of the shops in Dundrum would go out of business but the new shopping centre in Dundrum is scintillating. It is like a community centre, packed with locals and those from the outer suburbs. It is exciting and thrilling to be in and people throng through Dundrum village who had never been there before. They are coming to the Dundrum centre on the Luas and going back on it. It is fantastic to see the physical transformation of the village. Everyone I speak to loves the shopping centre.

I am in an anti-competitive environment and although I do not have more experience than anyone else, I am experienced in dealing with retailers. The Enterprise Strategy Group document, Ahead of the Curve, Ireland's Place in the Global Economy, quotes Mr. Peter Drucker, the ultimate source of knowledge on these matters, on page 85: "A country's global competitiveness has as much to do with effective government as it has with effective corporations." The government job has been done by putting this groceries order to bed.

The Enterprise Strategy Group, on page 60 of its publication, states that the food, drink and tobacco indigenous industries recorded "little or no sales growth in real terms over the past decade". It continues, "Given that economic conditions were perfectly favourable, this lack of sales growth highlights a serious weakness". We are getting excited about the food and drink suppliers but over the lifetime of the groceries order, they have shown no growth. That is serious.

The food industry employs 50,000 people and the distribution sector 60,000 people. The industry is in trouble — why is that? The groceries order did not help those companies in any way because competition is the spice of life. All of us in this Chamber only perform in a non-protectionist environment if we compete. We are at our best when we are competing.

The Minister made one of the best speeches ever in this House. It succinctly analysed all the discussions and advice, legal and professional. It brought together the Consumers Association and the Competition Authority, which both want the groceries order put to bed. Everyone had a reason for H. Williams going out of business but the Minister pointed out it was because of the poor financial state of the company.

As a producer who started from nothing, our business would not have grown but for the multiples. In 20 years I was never exploited by a multiple. Nobody will hand one business on a plate but if one is wide awake and on the ball, these retailers will give one opportunities to grow one's business. The Enterprise Strategy Group report states there is no growth in the food and drinks industry but if people perform, they will get opportunities to grow.

The Minister said this Government has more than doubled the resources available to the Competition Authority in the past five years and that is why in 2006 it has provided the authority with an additional €0.75 million to boost its investigative and enforcement capacity. It is very important that once there is a whisper of a complaint, the Competition Authority takes action immediately. It should not dawdle when people have the courage to complain about unfair practices. That was the most critical part of the Minister's contribution, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Immediate intervention is required by the Competition Authority.

Some people working in the multiples are not as good as others. It is all about the person one meets in the company. Some may be engaged in sharp practices but if one deals with a trustworthy person, one can grow one's business. However, in order to protect oneself, one must be on the ball and juggle non stop. There are challenges and opportunities in dealing with the retailers.

Last week there was a critical report about Tesco and its treatment of suppliers on the front page of the Financial Times. I am not here to defend Tesco but Lucy Neville-Rolfe, Tesco's corporate affairs director, pointed out that the Office of Fair Trading in the UK recently concluded, after detailed study, that Tesco and its rivals — Asda, etc. — treated their suppliers fairly and paid promptly.

When we started in business first it was great to be in with the multiples because they had a large number of stores and we got access to many customers. When we got a cheque for £30,000 there was excitement that we could pay the wages the following week. I am not exonerating everybody, or saying everyone is a saint. In any business, including in Leinster House, there are people who will not act with integrity, so one must be wide awake.

I fully support the rescinding of the groceries order. I compliment the Minister because he needed guts to do this. I heard people in our party rooms who were against it. The Minister needed courage to drive it through but that was what he was being asked to do by the consumers' association, acting on behalf of consumers, and the Competition Authority.

Senator O'Toole talked about the price of goods in small shops. We get an exotic variety of goods from all over the world. The consumer has choice. Why are people queuing up outside Aldi and Lidl? I go through the newspapers on a Sunday to read the advertisements. I then telephone my daughter to tell her fabulous binoculars, or whatever, are on offer for €20 or €9. I tell her to go to Lidl or Aldi on a Monday morning for the special offers. Why are people queuing up to go to these shops? The people are dying to be in the shops. Members of the Houses are supposed to have vision. It is inevitable that business will change and retailing is changing dramatically.

I referred previously to indigenous industry. Some 82% of our exports is from multinationals. It is much more difficult to develop indigenous industry but we need to examine it to find out why it is not performing. We need also to find out why the food and drinks industry is not growing because we need it for the agricultural sector. It would be ideal for farmers to move into the food and drinks industry. Every business starts small, including Baileys, which is a world icon. There are potential little Baileys in our agriculture sector. Innovation is the name of the game and that applies to retailers as well.

When we started out in business I learned much from dealing with Superquinn and Quinnsworth, which is now Tesco. I learned from their efficiency and how they ran their businesses. They are incredible and the manner in which they conduct their businesses is a lesson in management.