David Norris (Independent)

I welcome the Minister to the House. I have but a few remarks, as many of the salient points have been made by my colleagues. The Minister's contribution dealt with the technical parameters of the Act and I cannot think of a better person to deal with these issues. However, I refer to the terms and references of the draft order, which states, "matters relating to and surrounding the making of a confession by Dean Lyons (deceased) . . .". How far could the term "surrounding" lead us? I am concerned not only with the matter of the confession of Dean Lyons but also about the plight of the family. A niece was in touch with me and I raised the issue in the House a little time ago. Family members feel there will be no closure for them and they are interested in the possibility of a further prosecution.

Senator Kett mentioned that a man in custody made a confession that appears to be more consistent with the facts. If there is evidence, I hope there will be a prosecution because the human impact on the bereaved in these circumstances must be recognised. I believe I am correct but I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong. This has happened in other cases — for example, the same phenomenon emerged in the case ofMalcolm MacArthur where, because a conviction was secured on one count, other counts were not pursued. That leaves the families of the victims in limbo. They feel there is no closure and they feel the dignity of the lives of their murdered relatives have not been addressed by the State.

The expense of running a trial is an issue but, in this case, €510,000 has been made available for the investigation. I would like the Minister to come up with a solution. There may be an ingenious solution whereby charges can be added. I do not know because I do not have the necessary background or expertise but surely it is wrong that people should be murdered and their fate left in a legal limbo when it is relatively clear who perpetrated the act, nobody is convicted and there is no closure for the relatives. This needs to be addressed.

The sum provided for the inquiry is modest in comparison with sums provided for other commissions and tribunals of inquiry. Will further funding be needed? Can the inquiry be completed in four months? If not, why not? The Minister has cracked the whip a little over his erstwhile colleagues in the legal profession. I am glad about this, although I do not mean he is doing it a nasty way. He is suggesting that, as an elected politician, he has a duty to ensure value for money for the taxpayer. There is variety in the performance of these various inquiries, some of which are extraordinarily efficient, achieve results and come to conclusions while others dither and dally and wander all around the place. I hope the Minister will confirm this will be an efficient inquiry. It will deal with a targeted case and it should not be allowed to become diffuse. It should, however, consider the terms outlined by the Minister.

Such a case is potentially damaging to the perception of the police. Ironically, approximately seven years ago, I was asked to speak at an international police convention in Dublin Castle. I was invited because the organisers wanted to spice up the event. I certainly obliged and I recall being virulently attacked by an Irish-American police chief. However, recommendations had been made at that time that Garda interviews and interrogations should not only be subject to an audio recording but should also be videotaped. I pointed out that this would protect not only the suspect but, importantly from the point of view of the State, it would protect the integrity of the police. A number of interrogations have been conducted in an improper manner and the Minister is aware of this. It happens in every jurisdiction but videotaping will help to get around that.

However, false accusations are sometimes made by the accused against the police. The Minister has spoken on the wireless about difficulties in this regard. For example, where video recordings are made, the defence counsel may apply for them and they may find their way to the associates of the accused and be used for nefarious purposes. Somebody of the Minister's intellectual ability and ingenuity will find a way around that problem. It is regrettable that a vulnerable homeless person should have found himself in this situation. One can understand the alacrity with which the police received a confession because it made their job so much easier. However, in this case, the shortest way home was the longest way around. I could use many clichés including a number in Latin such as festina lente but, sometimes, a bit of a rush mucks things up. Will the Minister outline whether it will be possible to provide closure for the family of the two women, Mary Callinan and Sylvia Shiels, because they feel it keenly? I doubt if I am only person who was written to in this House about this. It hit home to me that these people were essentially forgotten. They feel very keenly seven years later that their two vulnerable elderly relatives were butchered but there has been no trial or conviction and there can be no closure for them until somebody is made to accept responsibility for the crime.