Seanad debates

Wednesday, 23 November 2005

7:00 pm

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)

——at times feeling particularly isolated in doing so. It is not possible for me to stand up and say the opposite.

The other side of my personality is the political one, and with a heavy heart I will have to vote for the Government amendment. However, I will have it clearly on the record that the day that I believe we are making progress is when the Government does not table an amendment to a motion of this kind. What would the consequence be for our Government to do what Senator O'Toole said? It would be a very difficult one, but I said the other morning on the Order of Business that the biggest difficulty I see is not the barbarity of which we now hear from both sides but the impact that it will have on world order in the long run.

It is happening because most nations, who are part of a fraternity, are not able to step aside and give an independent view. If we acquiesce in what has happened, the world order will be changed in such a way that there will be no security and no safety. Ultimately, there will be terrible suffering. We keep hearing about another world war. In a way, it is happening all over the world at present.

One can see the terrorism being spread. I would like to put a question on the record. Is there any difference between the terrorism of the insurgents and that of the multinational force? The only difference that I see is that they have the power and the might. I have never seen any moral distinction between the big bomb and the small one. As far as I was concerned, it was not a matter of how one did it. Let us recall the night we watched what people did not then regard as horrific pictures — the shock and awe tactics. We felt as if we were inside a cinema watching a film, but I kept thinking of children on the ground, the elderly and invalids wondering why the world was doing that to them. Their lives were absolutely and utterly obliterated, while the Americans played political games.

I have listened to Donald Rumsfeld without being able to understand what the man was saying. He was talking a jargon meant to be English, but I could not understand. What I did know, however, was that at the end of that jargon was human suffering. He was part of the regime trying to perpetrate that suffering. It had nothing to do with the attacks of 11 September 2001. They were abominable acts against a freedom-loving people. Friends of mine were caught up in that terrible tragedy. However, the invasion of Iraq was on the cards before any attack. It is no longer a secret that the Americans regard themselves as world police. I regard them as domineering people trying to impose their will on everyone else. If they do not do so militarily, they will do so economically.

At the moment, I see hopeful signs that the Americans themselves are reacting and responding. I speak not only of former Presidents but of the media and everyone. Let us consider what happened in Vietnam. One was regarded as a traitor for several years for suggesting that what was happening there was totally and utterly wrong. Subsequently, everyone jumped on the bandwagon, and everyone agreed that killing 3 million Vietnamese, with the barbarity and cruelty inflicted on them, had no justification. We are in exactly the same position today, and unless we all put our shoulder to the wheel and push that other bandwagon a little faster and more strongly, we only delay the opportunity to bring some semblance of sense to events.

Our difficulty is this. We look back at the invasion and see where we are now. It is strange to say that the invaders went in because they said there were weapons of mass destruction but that now they cannot get out because there might be civil war. There is no rationale to that argument. I know that efforts are being made to talk to the insurgents, but they are not strong enough. They had better talk to them and work on the basis that there is no place for America, Britain or any of those other forces in Iraq in the long term.

I accept that we must respect the fact that elections have been held and what is happening with their constitution. However, it will not work in the manner that America envisages. The only thing that will force America to revert to the previous situation is the political climate within that country itself. That is changing very fast, and one need only look at George Bush's ratings to realise that he has made a mess of this. However, to make matters worse, they are eyeing Iran and North Korea. At this stage, they are eyeing the entire world, and it is not too much to say that what is likely to happen there is that they may need another conflict.

Senators know that there is a kind of gung-ho attitude with most powers. Exactly the same thing happened with Maggie Thatcher in Britain. If their boys are in trouble or having difficulty, they feel that they must respond. I am afraid they might create a situation that will start the whole wheel turning again. I will support the Government amendment, but I must compliment those who tabled the motion. I compliment them on the sense behind their contributions, particularly the graphic descriptions.

I am convinced that might should never succeed over right. In this regard, I refer to the rights of the individual, particularly the most vulnerable people on this earth. Our first task must be to support them. If one considers the history of Ireland, one will note it has always been regarded as an honest broker, as having integrity and as peace-loving nation prepared to send peacekeepers all over the world. We must use this position and not allow it to be diluted. Above all else, we must keep debating this issue in the House.

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