Don Lydon (Fianna Fail)

If a blind eye is turned, it is a general who does so. Generals really only do what they are permitted by politicians. Blame should sit where it must, namely, with the people who give the instructions. America's Commander-in-Chief and Secretary of State for Defence are very strong and powerful roles. If one were to examine any army throughout history one would find very few mutinies. Soldiers generally obey orders and do not act on their own. However, I am not so naive as to believe that, in a war situation, soldiers do not sometimes carry out actions they should not.

Young men from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Texas, Idaho and so on are frightened in Iraq. It is a shocking and incredible statistic that one US soldier loses a limb every four hours. A total of 100,000 Iraqis are dead and the country is in chaos despite elections and what they are trying to do. I do not wish to take away from this in any sense as the West must try to help Iraq establish a democracy according to its principles and ways, not ours. It must be given the freedom to do so. It has been rid of a tyrant but he should not be replaced by another tyrannical regime.

The problem for the US in Iraq is that the situation is almost another Vietnam. I visited Vietnam a number of years ago and spoke with many Vietnamese who do not call it the Vietnamese War but the American War. Approximately 3 million Vietnamese and 66,000 Americans were killed. The figures were so great it does not matter. One incident saw Hue, a beautiful city that is now a UNESCO site, being taken on General William Westmoreland's order. Inside a week, 10,000 civilians were killed for nothing as today, the city is doing business with America, the state is communist but one can still practice religion and so on.

The same is happening in Iraq. It is difficult not to have atrocities in a conventional war but we must never be afraid to speak out against them when we see them. I applaud Senator Norris and the Members who support him for doing so. I am afraid that the American forces will have trouble in this struggle, which is turning into a guerrilla war. The only way to win this type of war is with a massive sweep of men and resources, which the US does not have at present. The danger could spread into other countries, such as Iran and neighbouring states.

We can support a motion such as this. I welcome that the amendment states it condemns the use of violence against civilians and chemical weapons in Iraq, although it does not say who uses them. We are using the phrase "Irish airport to transit prisoners for rendition purposes". "Rendition" is a great word but what does it mean? Does it mean torture? It should not be in the amendment. However, I support the amendment because I am supposed to but it goes against the grain. The motion is good and does not bash America but merely states a fact. In our country and our democracy we should be entitled to condemn this outrageous use of chemical weapons against innocent civilians.