Mary Henry (Independent)

The level of drug abuse in prisons is outrageous. On several occasions, prisoners or their relations have spoken to me about prisoners who did not have any involvement in drug abuse until they went to jail, which is really terrible. I have visited drug-free prisons in other countries, including Maiano Prison in Spoleto, the highest security prison in Italy. Some of the prisoners in that jail have been given sentences of 25 or 30 years. I did not ask what they are in prison for because I did not want to find out. The Minister has placed great emphasis on surveillance and mandatory drug testing, which is all very well, but I am informed that diversion programmes are the most successful way of keeping prisoners away from drugs. I wish the Minister had mentioned education, which is terribly important, in that context. The Minister, for whose support I am grateful, is aware that I am an enthusiastic advocate of the dramatic productions which take place in Mountjoy Prison. Prisoners are keen to point out that those who are involved in such productions, including those who have a history of drug-taking, do not take drugs. We can help to reduce the level of drug-taking in our prisons by getting prisoners involved in more diversionary programmes.

The last time I visited Mountjoy Prison, prisoners were using machines to sew towels and jeans, etc. We have not returned to the days of sewing mail bags by hand. The prisoners improved their sewing skills when they completed the big project of making 85,000 flags for the Special Olympics World Summer Games in 2003. If one talks to prisoners, most of whom are so young it is pathetic, they will tell one they would do anything to get out of their prison cells. They are happy to do any kind of work or participate in any form of education. If one goes around the back of the prison, one will see prisoners making paving stones. If one goes to the metal workshop, one will see prisoners working on various metal appliances, such as the frames for park benches. It is somewhat facile, which is a dreadful word to use, simply to talk about mandatory urine testing and surveillance, etc. It is extremely important to encourage prisoners to want to stop taking drugs. Prisoners will give up drugs if they are told they cannot help out with the play, which all of them want to do, if they continue to take drugs. Carrots are frequently more effective than sticks in such circumstances.

I wish the Minister, Deputy McDowell, well with his proposals in this Bill. It is regrettable that our prisons have been sorely neglected for so long. I do not think the best thing to do is to build more prisons so that we have more prison places. The experience of other jurisdictions should teach us that no matter how many prison spaces are provided, they will get filled. I would like far more money to be invested in the probation and welfare service. I urge caution in respect of some of the Minister's proposals which may mean that things are cheaper, as we have to ensure that things are safer as well. I am sure the Minister would not wish to make any progress without taking safety considerations into account.