Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)

The development of the 150 acre Thornton site will produce a modern prison campus with the appropriate range of facilities and with room for future expansion. It will end the unacceptable practice of "slopping out" which the inmates of Mountjoy endure. It will prevent drugs being catapulted over the prison walls into the exercise yards. It will make it possible to have a drug-free prison system, which is very difficult at Mountjoy.

The sale of the valuable Mountjoy site, 20 acres abutting the Royal Canal site in Dublin, could bring in anything up to €100 million. It will go a substantial way towards delivering a modern new prison campus at Thornton. The north inner city will benefit from the redevelopment of the Mountjoy site. There is massive potential for the redevelopment and rejuvenation of this part of our capital city once the new prison campus is up and running.

I am also moving ahead with plans to develop a new modern prison for the Munster region on Spike Island. As with the Thornton development, the new prison will provide the range of facilities best suited to meet modern requirements. This prison building programme is aimed at moving us to a situation where, by and large, we will have single cell occupancy within the prison system. I am also extending capacity at the open prisons in Loughan House and Shelton Abbey. As many prisoners as possible should be accommodated in such institutions. I am extending the definition of "prison officer" in section 9 to allow for the definition to apply to a prisoner custody officer and I am providing for technical amendments in section 10 dealing with prison rules.

With regard to drugs, the replacement of the Mountjoy complex provides a long overdue opportunity to focus on designing drugs out of the prison environment. In line with the drugs policy for the Prison Service, which I will publish shortly, there will be an intensification of efforts in the prison system to prevent the availability of illicit drugs within prisons. This will involve the traditional means of effecting supply reduction and elimination — staff vigilance, physical searches and supervision of persons entering prisons — continuing to be reinforced by means of improved facilities and procedures for searches, as well as use of video surveillance and screening in visiting rooms, prison yards and other areas where drugs are likely to change hands.

I will bring forward legislative proposals through the Criminal Justice Bill, this Bill and the new prison rules which will underpin the physical structures being planned for the new prisons. Central to supporting future supply and demand reduction will be the introduction of mandatory drug testing as envisaged in the programme for Government. The new prison rules include specific provision for mandatory drug testing and, in this context, it is intended that later in the year, the Prison Service will commence implementation of a new strategy of mandatory drug testing, addiction counselling and treatment and increased measures to prevent drug usage to provide for a more complete system of rehabilitation.

Drugs in prison are a disaster. There is no point having people in prison if they have access to drugs, other than to protect the public from their presence on the street. There is no rehabilitation if hard drugs are present in prisons and no chance that people will go straight after prison if they emerge from prison with a hard drug usage problem. To those who suggest needle exchanges and sterilising fluid as part of the prison regime I respond with an emphatic "No". One can only stop drugs in prison by doing just that, not by tolerating them or having prison officers handing out needles to prisoners in the interests of the prisoners' health. That is confused thinking on a moral and practical plane. I wholly oppose it and will not countenance it.

The introduction of mandatory drug testing or MDT has a number of purposes, namely, to deter drug usage, to identify and treat those who misuse drugs and to provide information on the level and type of drug usage in prisons. That will demonstrate to governors their responsibility and performance targets. It is the responsibility of governors to ensure drugs are not in their prisons. It is a crime if there are drugs in a prison and it is an important part of the function of governors to keep their prisoners safe. Safe in this context means safe from drugs, not safe on drugs.

In January 2003, I established a committee on video conferencing, chaired by Mrs. Justice Susan Denham, to examine its potential for use for the conduct of trials. An interim report was completed in February 2004 and the final report became available in January 2005. In its interim report, the committee was of the view that the use of a live television link could be of value and that a number of pilot projects should be introduced. However, the committee was satisfied that legislation was required to enable the use of video conferencing facilities in the Irish criminal courts.

This legislation was prepared on the basis of the committee's interim report which only envisaged its use for pre-trial applications. As currently drafted, section 11 of the Bill provides that a court may direct that specified pre-trial hearings may proceed with the accused not physically present in the court but who may participate by means of a live television link to the prison where the accused is in custody. The court may not proceed with such televised hearings if it would be unfair to the accused or in certain other circumstances where it would not be appropriate, such as proper facilities not being available or issues being too complex.

The committee in its final report drew attention to the financial benefits of using video conferencing and also pointed to the advantages that had been identified in other jurisdictions, namely, the elimination of the security problems associated with prisoner transportation; the reduction in prisoner transportation costs; a reduction in tension at courtroom precincts by eliminating prisoner movement and waiting in holding cells; allowing prisoners to be released more quickly after a court hearing and the potential to improve the management of court hearings. In the final report the committee recommended that the scope for the use of video conferencing be expanded to include applications during a trial and after a trial.

The issue of the use of video conferencing in civil proceedings was also addressed in the final report. My officials are in consultation with the Attorney General's office on the additional matters raised in the final report and I intend to bring forward appropriate amendments to the Bill on Committee Stage to reflect those consultations. I wish to signal now, lest anyone thinks I am ignoring the final report of the Denham committee, that I will expand the terms of this Bill to take full account of it to the extent possible.

In conclusion, I wish to underline the importance I attach to the provision of modern and humane conditions for both prisoners and staff. For young men — and they are most frequently sent to prison — going to prison is a disaster in their lives. Incarceration should be a last resort and should only be used where no other way of dealing with an offender is practical, reasonable and consistent with the maintenance of the rule of law. However, with an expanding population there will be a requirement for a substantial prison estate in Ireland. There is no reason that it should not be of the highest quality. There should be, for example, athletics facilities, football pitches and the like so prisoners can have a rehabilitative experience. There should be space for educational facilities in our prisons. Prisons should not be Victorian hellholes but modern places which are, in so far as is consistent with security, uplifting and enlightening for inmates rather than depressing and dehumanising. If we put the necessary investment in place, we will achieve such standards.

This Bill, together with the new prison rules and the prison officers' agreement on revised work practices, are part of a huge reforming process. We will change the way prisons are run, where they are located and the results that are achieved from the point of view of prisoners. I look forward to hearing Senators' views on the Bill and will give careful consideration to the points raised in the debate. I look forward to any proposals in respect of amendments on Committee Stage.