Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, to the House. I wished to be present when he entered the House but I was unable to do so. I listened carefully when he spoke in the Dáil on the Lisbon Agenda, or the national reform programme as we call it.

When the Lisbon Agenda was published in 2000, everybody labelled it as radical and interesting and as something that would do much good for Europe. The process has clearly slowed in other European countries, although not here. I will not boast about Ireland, but it is amazing how much the national reform programme mirrors what was detailed in the Lisbon Agenda, or what is now the Lisbon National Reform Programme. The programme contains many guidelines that this country has operated under for approximately the past decade. Although we may be tired of hearing it, people often ask how Ireland is in such good shape, with sustained growth beginning around 1994, sustained employment levels, and a sustained downward trend in unemployment.

There have been some bad elements also, and Senator Bradford is correct in pointing out the lack of penetration for broadband, which is quite amazing. The Internet penetration issue may have been slightly better when I was Minister for Public Enterprise. We have never achieved a breakthrough, although I do not know why. The technology is being implemented throughout the country, the roads have lines running along them, people have had lessons and money has been given towards small and large grants. We are all now computer literate, but people may still prefer to do business on a personal level. This may contribute to this lack of penetration, as the lack is not down to an absence of providing the technology.

Even where penetration exists, an accelerated take-up of the Internet is not occurring. Perhaps people are wise to it and will not go along the route of constantly relying on technology when people skills are our main stock and trade. Such a hypothesis could be considered the reason for the low penetration and take-up.

The programme is laid out somewhat like a budget for a country or how one might lay out a growth pattern. The Minister of State's presentation was quite good, and the Department of the Taoiseach has outlined headings, such as research and development, of what the country hopes to achieve. We cannot emphasise enough the necessity to focus on and finance education.

The regional technical colleges were established many years ago when Dr. Hillery was Minister for Education. The money to build them came from the World Bank and as Members know, they were all built to a pattern. Subsequently they have all been enhanced through the addition of extensions or through reconstructions, etc. What would have happened had we had not moved ahead with the regional colleges at that time? Originally, there were to be eight colleges, but the former Deputy Neil Blaney secured one for Letterkenny and another college was established in Tralee. I remember the excitement in the town of Athlone when it was designated as a site for a regional college. They are now, rightly, called institutes of technology. When a definitive history of the growth in education in Ireland from that time comes to be written — I am sure some already have been — the institutes will play a pivotal role. They contribute to their surrounding regions and while many qualifications are the speciality of a particular college, they have achieved national standards of excellence.

Throughout our education system, we have established primary schools, all of which are good, as well as secondary, comprehensive, community and vocational schools to serve our young people. I share Senator Bradford's unease at the non-retention rate in second level schools, which is enormous. Many schools now have a teacher who is known as a retention officer. For example, in Moate Community School, which is a large school, there is a teacher whose duties include retention duties. This involves meeting parents and pupils constantly and encouraging them to stay put. While acknowledging there is a wider world in which such pupils may earn money, if the climate changes, they will no longer do so. They will be obliged to return to school.

How often have Members met people who want to return to school? I meet such people constantly, including young women who left school to become waitresses, to work in shops or something else. They then decide they want to study for their leaving certificate examinations in subjects such as English, mathematics and history. They take subjects they perceive to be regular. I always encourage them and try to get them into a college or school which will be friendly towards returned students and which will provide an atmosphere where they will not feel out of place and will feel comfortable pursuing their further studies. Nevertheless, I do not like the increase in the non-retention rates of young people at second level schools. I expect the allure of earning money and of entering the marketplace is responsible. While there is big money to be earned, a student or young person entering the marketplace without a formal qualification such as a leaving certificate or whatever are at an enormous disadvantage, because it is a passport to better jobs and wages. Some young people do not even have junior certificates.

Eventually, such people may wish to enter a third level college. The third level colleges now run wonderful access programmes where people who left education early can return. In some cases their life experiences are rightly considered as if they were educational modules. Such people are able to develop a portfolio of credits based on experience and thus enter third level college. The significance of such programmes cannot be overstressed.

When people ask me how Ireland maintained its success rate, growth rate and employment rate, I ascribe it to two factors. The first is education and the second is the development of the relationships between the trade unions and the other social partners. We have given various names to those consensus building arrangements. Historically, the premium on education was a major factor in Ireland when people had little else. I do not wish to sound trite when I refer to hedge schools, but it is true. Historical links endure in life. There was a premium on education and parents did not care what it cost or how it was secured if they could get their children into proper schools. The idea that proper education is needed lingered in people's minds.

Moreover, unlike the United Kingdom, in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, we did not go down the primrose path of adopting experimental methods for primary and secondary schools which originated in the United States. We kept to proper education, whereby one was taught to read, write, multiply and do one's basic sums. As we did not have the money to experiment, we did not do so. We were correct because ultimately, it has been proven that formal education, delivered now in happier milieus than heretofore, has served the nation well.

As for second level education, I have always thought that the English approach of specialising in three subjects after completing the equivalent of our junior certificate was incorrect because pupils only had specialised knowledge of those subjects. Irish pupils sample six or seven subjects and acquire a nodding acquaintance with many of them, including various languages. While one might not be proficient, one certainly has a good acquaintance with many subjects. It is daft to ask young people of 14 or 15 years of age to decide on their further careers when they have plenty of time to do so at 17 or 18. In addition, the world is not static. Nowadays, few people stay in the same jobs forever or retire from them. People's minds are now required to be versatile. They are required to think laterally as well as vertically. People must be open-minded and lateral thinkers so they are available, ready and willing to change jobs and move about.

This is a strong point in our favour and cannot be emphasised enough. All Governments, no matter how straitened they were for money, provided rich and robust education budgets. This was the case when I shadowed the then Minister for Education, Gemma Hussey, even though money was then very tight. Naturally, I claimed it was not.